Hot Ceiling from fuel lamp

[Stormin Mormon]

Does a kerosene or propane lamp create enough heat to be a fire hazard? When hung from a cup hook, from the ceiling?

Is a heat shield needed?

[aemeijers]

Based on the cabin we had when I was a kid, I'd say yes, at least if it is hung that close. The upper parts of the lamp got way too hot to touch, and would singe paper. They also weigh way more than a cup hook is rated for- you want a big S-hook into solid wood, not some itty-bitty thing half an inch into a trim board. If a hot lamp falls and spills, then you have a real fire hazard. I refer you to Mrs. O'Leary's cow, or any old western movie where they have a fight in the old mine. We usually used a sheet of shiny metal as a light reflector above or behind the lamp- one of those old silver hot pads with heat-resistant back would be ideal, but a patterned stainless stove backsplash would probably work well too. Or even a sheet of galvanized with an air space behind it.

-- aem sends...

[hrhofmann]

Try it, sit/stand by with a fire extinguisher, if it doesn't smoke or discolor the ceiling after a couple of hours, you might be safe?????

[Stormin Mormon]

From what I heard from field reporters. Some lamps such as Alladin are far too hot to have near a ceiling. The wick type lamps I've got, don't seem to be a problem. I ran two, last night. For an hour. One, the ceiling was about 95F or so, and the other was about 115.

[Stormin Mormon]

There are a variety of different oil lamps. The two I was using are on the smallish side. The larger of the two, I just put on a postal scale, and find out out weighs 1 pound

2 ounces (not much fuel; probably get up around a pound, 4 ounces if it was full).

I'd rather have a hot lamp hanging out of the way, compared to on most of the flat surfaces I've got. These are smallish lamps.

Aparently, other folks have bigger or brighter lamps, which put out more heat.

[Jim Elbrecht]

-snip-

I think *might* is the key. The sheetrock on the ceiling might just discolor- but stay cool enough to not burn. But the joist on the other side has no ventilation, so it dries out, heats up, and 2 months from now you leave the lamp on by mistake, go to bed, and wake up with the flames licking up a wall.

A heat shield is pretty cheap and can even be decorative. Even a tile with an air space behind it could save the day.

Of course if you have those 10 foot ceilings like they did back in the days when those lamps were in common use, you could drop the lamp down

3 feet from the ceiling and only have the soot to contend with.

Jim

[norminn]

Oil lamps all smoke a good deal, even if you don't see it. Up close to the ceiling, when some smoke collects, might you set up a "flashover"?

[Existential Angst]

Overall, candles and fueled lamps/heaters are sposedly THE #1 cause of all fires.

The consequences of ANY mishap with these things are so extensive, and often beyond our immediate control or anticipation, that I eliminate even the

*thought* of these things in my household.

Multiply this paranoia by 1,000,000 with kids around. Or rambunctious pets. Or numerous wives. Heh.....

Not tryna be a killjoy, but the tragedies with these things are just legion. Accidents have happenned just in *filling* these things, improperly storing the fuel, you name it.

If yer camping etc, that's one thing, but around a regular domicile, our guard gets naturally lax.

[Stormin Mormon]

As a former fire fighter, I'm not sure you use the word "flashover" the way firemen do.

I couldn't see any vapors or smoke over the lamp. Trace of soot inside the glass.

[Pete C.]

Screw the cup kook through an aluminum (disposable) pie pan and you should get an adequate heat shield / reflector. Hang with an extra S hook to hang it a bit lower too.

[hrhofmann]

What about using an LED light, like the kind that recharge in sunlight and line pathways at night. There are even lights that have a separate collector and spotlight. That would be much safer even if a little more $$$

[Stormin Mormon]

Very good idea. The couple small lamps I have don't seem to put out enough heat to be an issue. Other lamps do put out heat.

I was thinking a length of chain and a mini caribeaner for more distance from the ceiling. S-hook or mini beaner would work. Excellent ideas.

[Stormin Mormon]

Ideally, LED or other battery lights for power cuts. I've had a couple moments when the power cut is winter time, and the bit of heat from burning lamp oil sure feels good.

Harbor Freight has a "shed light" with remote solar panel. I'm guessing the internal batteries are poor quality, but some good with electric can wire in a set of nicads in parallel.

[terry]

Quite possibly; yes. Back 50 to 100 years ago when typical oil lamps with, say, a one inch wide wick, were installed on wall brackets, not even close to the ceiling, a heat shield and light reflector was often used. Such lamps were often used on boats (sailing schooners etc.). PS. If you have to ask then the answer is 'for sure'!

[norminn]

I recall seeing modern lamps for boats, but seems that they had heat shields above which were part of the mounting device.

Also recall the days before some family members had electricity in their home - kerosene lamps, hung on wall. Of course, those lamps were low enough to reach for lighting and refilling, and the ceilings were probably 9' or 10'. They also had some sort of "fire extinguisher" hanging on another wall - a glass globe with some sort of fluid inside. In retrospect, I can't imagine those having much effect on a fire.

[Stormin Mormon]

After asking, I did a practical test, and find out the ceiling (in this case) didn't get very hot (with the two lamps I have).

[Stormin Mormon]

I'm sure the wall brackets are still made. The glass globes were probably carbon tetrachloride. They would have been better with a bucket of water.

[Ralph Mowery]

The carbon tetrachloride chemical made a good fire stopper. The problem is it is also very dangerous to people. If you do not get liver damage from it by it getting on your skin, the hot vapors transform into another gas that will kill.. You put out the fire and die by the chemical.

If anyone has the glass balls filled with it or any of the extinguishers that were usually a brass container with a pump , they should be disposed of by the proper method and never used to fight a fire.

[Stormin Mormon]

And, the "proper method" would be? I've got antique carbon tet extinguisher, some where. Long since dried out, but I do have some carbon tet in a glass bottle, some where. I use it very occasionally when a nonpolar solvent is needed.

[terry]

IIRC they contained carbon tetrachloride. Now declared poisonous? Also recall the brass pump variety sometimes used in vehicles. Same fluid we used plentifully for cleaning greasy machine parts. Occasionally someone would steal one of those globes off the wall if short of 'Carbon-tet' for cleaning purposes! That was some 60 to 65 years ago when was an apprentice!