New drill/driver

[krw]

Huh? What physical or chemical limits did SawStop go up against?

[clare]

Over the last number of years the current capacity of a simple AA or a simple 9 volt battery has increased significantly - particularly in the rechargeable versions I remember 80mah 9 volt ni-cads. 350mah Nimh are now pretty standard, with Lithiums going over 600mah

[-MIKE-]

The basic volt/amp sizes have barely changed in since the invention off the dry cell. Simple physics/chemistry. Heck, even electric cars are basically a zillion AAs tied together.

The size of a 1.5volt dry cell at a certain amperage has remained the same for a century, no matter the material inside.

That can't be said of many other technologies over the past 100 years.

[-MIKE-]

I'll give you that. But I just don't see a logarithmic scale happening here, like you see in other technologies. If the chemistry of the dry cell was as advancing as say, the speed of microprocessors, we'd have drills that you only charged once a year. :-)

[none]

I'm thinking the possibility of transmitted power, such as electromagnet beamed power. Small receiver on a drill and off you go. Of course, some advances need to be done, but what I'm talking about already exists in it's early stages.

[nailshooter41]

I understand. That's why my old Makita is going nowhere. I know what it w ill do, how hard it will work, and how dependable it is.

I had not looked at anything Ryobi in too many years to count as I thought of them as casual user tools, not anything to depend on. Again, if it hadn 't been for my electrician, I still would not have bothered to take a look. I wouldn't mind a light weight drill though, one that could run up a few s crews, drill a couple of holes as needed in routine small repairs. I don't always need to kill an ant with a sledge hammer.

And while the name of Milwaukee has come up, it might interest folks to kno w the drills are made in the same factory by the same folks that make Ridgi d. I found this out from the Milwaukee tool rep, confirmed it later with a nother Milwaukee tool rep, then had it confirmed by the tool specialist wor king for Home Depot.

Robert

[clare]

And if you hit something they wouldn't go through, they'd either snap your wrist like a nono-toothpick or throw youhalfway to mars with their uber-torque. "if automobiles had advanced as quickly as computers, by 2000 we'd have been driving at twice the speed of light while riding on the head of a pin - in 1990 that would have been the speed of sound on a postage stamp"

[clare]

And if you listen to the detractors of wifi and other EMI, we'll all sport 3rd eyeballs, and be dying of cancer by age 12.

[dadiOH]

My opinion of Ridgid just went up a notch. Oh, alright, two notches :)

[Leon]

It had mentality barriers to get through.

[Leon]

3

I saw a HD commercial on TV a couple of days ago where the guy was swamping and interchanging attachments and IIRC batteries between Ridgid and Ryobi. I suspect that Ryobi builds both.

[krw]

That's a lot easier than rewriting physics.

[Lew Hodgett]

I think I am going in a different direction for a bit. I have an ancient Makita 14.4 ni cad (which I thought was working well for me, but reading this makes me realize how clueless I am) that will pull the balls of a rhino. I spent $329 for it about > years ago. While I have killed a few batteries, the smart charger does well with itself, and the helical cut bronze gears in the drill make it solid as the day I bought it. The chuck is an American made Jacobs with carbide liners and it will still grip a 1/16" to 1/2" with the same precision.

It has drilled thousands of holes, and driven many times that of screws. But the drill is large and weighs a bunch. Still, I will be undone if anything happens to it as it is my cabinet hanging monster.

It still works fine. But I am taking a look at this tool set for the first time.

My electrician uses it for all kinds of drilling, screw driving, and has even use it with a wire brush to clean up fixtures. He uses the hell out of both the drill and the driver every single day. He is on his third set. According to him, they last about 2 1/2 to 3 years, and then he simply tosses them. I have never had any of my DeWalt or Hitachi drills last longer than that.

I have several entry door replacements coming up, and I will see if it will bore a hole in a 1 3/4 door. If it will, I am in. I have to have a really light touch with the rhino killer when running in all the door hinge screws, and there will be a few hundred of them if I get all the work I have bid.

[nailshooter41]

Except that Ryobi doesn't build Ryobi. According to the Techtronics Indust ry of North America, the manufacture (quoting verbatim Jason Swanson, Direc tor of Communications)Milwaukee, Ryobi, AEG, Ridgid, Dirt Devil, Homelite, and many more. These names are badges for tools and TIN makes tools > of the name holder. They also make tools for Craftsman, and ot hers. Most of these names were bought by holding groups as investments wit h absolutely no concern wit the quality of the tools they produce.

A quick trio to some of the TIN websites and their affiliates will easily c onfirm this nasty arrangement. But this also applies to the holding groups that own Jet, Powermatic, and all the brands of hand tools scooped up by t he folks that bought Porter Cable, Bosch tools, etc. Although there are no doubt a few companies that make their own tools now, I don't know of any m ass produced tools.

I have no doubt that some of the accessories from Ryobi will fit Ridgid and the other way around. It makes sense; why not have interchangeability for accessories that provide service for infrequent use? Most professionals b uy only single use tools, but a homeowner may have occasional use for many operations that these lightweight accessories would be a perfect fit. I ha ve to say after looking at HD this morning I didn't see any interchangeable accessories for the respective hand drill lines.

I learn something every day. 40+ years ago when I started in the trades, n ames like Festool, AEG, Metabo, Bosch, Festo, Fein, etc. weren't available and weren't affordable if they were. King of the hill back then was Metabo as I think (not sure) they were the first well respected hand power tool c ompany from Europe to make a push into the US. Stuff only a young man coul d dream of. Then came the other brands on their heels.

I didn't know at the time that these companies would become chess pieces on the game of business with whole businesses bought and sold at will. I lov ed the romance of advertising that sold "old world tool making brought into the 21st century".

This thread got my interest up as to who owns who these days, and I was stu nned to find the giant conglomerate AEG had spun off their tool division. See if these look familiar:

It gets worse. I found that the much vaunted Festool group of tools is now owned by yet another holding company:

Soo... I guess I am saying that it all boils down to the contractors specs to the jobber/manufacturer to get the product they want their name on. The whole tool business these days is nothing more than an inbred bunch of acc ountants/investors/efficiency engineers that are working to maximize the do llar from manufacturing widgets.

All of that being said, I must say that in talking to the Ryobi rep and the Milwaukee rep at the same time on Contractor's Day at HD was enlightening. Both have sold tools for other companies and had been reps for years. Of the choices at the store, for a contractor like me both said they would buy Ridgid for hard use. Two reasons: First, some Milwaukee products will ou t perform some of the Ridgid products in extreme conditions, but the return /failure rate was about the same which makes sense at the guts are essentia lly the same. Second, the Ridgid brand has that great warranty that no one else offers, and both said that was impossible to beat.

Speaking of batteries, just a couple of years ago it was found that most ne w Li batteries were interchangeable between Ryobi and Ridgid. If that is t he case, that makes it even more attractive to me, a buy that might drop a tool off a 2nd story ladder or have it stolen. If the batteries interchang e, I will be gladly looking at this type of replacement should the tool its elf fail after the manufacturer's three year warranty from Ryobi.

Robert

[Swingman]

Amen, and AKA: "price point engineering".

[nailshooter41]

ch of accountants/investors/efficiency engineers that are working to maximi ze the dollar from manufacturing widgets.

Testify! Applied to pretty much everything these days, I have found myself less and less concerned with branding.

Absolutely. I have commented over the years that I have steadily watched t he quality of HF tools go up and the quality of higher priced, badged tools go down. And with HF's in store exchange guarantee, it is hard to beat th em, too. The only problem I have with HF is that some of their tools are r eally pretty good and the service life to price is an excellent ratio. But some of their tools just aren't that good. But they are expanding so fast and improving so much they just might make a credible name for themselves across the board one day.

Robert

[Puckdropper]

" [e-mail]" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

*snip*

*snip*

Black & Decker had an interesting drill concept a short time ago. I bought one of their interchangable drills last year, and thought the idea was pretty good. It had a module that was driven by a single motor, so if you wanted to change from drill to driver, you popped off the drill module and popped on the driver module. It seemed to work alright, but I took it back because the motor/gears sounded like it was grinding rocks.

I never did try the impact driver module, based on the gear noises I knew I was taking the thing back and getting something else.

I think someone here mentioned it and was impressed with the demo unit he had.

Puckdropper

[clare]

I don't even consider a Black and Decker tool newer than about 30 years to be a tool. In my experience they are pretty much all JUNK.

[Lee Michaels]

wrote

Yep, I feel the same way. It is an interesting business model. Open up a bunch of stores. Sell tools at a super discounted price and expand quickly. Essentially open up a bunch of stores selling crap. Then...... , once you have people coming into the stores, start to improve the quality of the tools. Which is the exact reversal of other tool company's approach.

I was looking at some of the reviews recently of some of their power tools. Years ago, there were complaints about a tool was just fine except for one part. Then the complaints stopped. Apparently, they fixed that one part. I think that Harbor Freight deal with their customer base as one big research and development lab. Make a tool cheap and see what the people say. Then order an improvement based on the complaints. Over time, the tool improves

I am not sure I approve of that model. But as a business-customer service model. It is probably better than trading on an old reputation for quality while making crappier and crappier tools. Like you say Robert, more and more tools are meeting somewhere in the middle.

As far as cordless tools are concerned, most people I have talked to have indicated that they are buying new tools based on the batteries they now have. Makes sense the the big companies sell packages of tools and batteries to get you in the door. After that, you don't want to make an investment in new batteries and chargers. So you buy that brand for other tools

I have been following this discussion and went and looked at the Ryobi tools. They have a number of 40 volt tools for working in the yard. Including lawnmowers and a chain saw. One lawnmower carried two batteries. So when one battery runs out, you just swap them and finish the job. And an eclectic chainsaw for landscaping or the odd emergency, that is perfect. Obviously can't do a lot of cutting, but for small jobs, just perfect.

I haven't made the investment in a lot of cordless tools. But with the cheaper versions of these tools getting better and better and the Lithium ion batteries becoming so prevalent, I may not be able to hold off much longer.

[Puckdropper]

"Mike Marlow" wrote in news:lnjuel$838$ [e-mail]:

You can't go by brand names any more. It all depends on where the giant holding company decides to shift that brand today.

While I won't seek out B&D, if someone gives a good review I'm willing to listen. Sometimes even a cost-conscious brand (i.e. cheap) puts out a good tool once in a while.

Puckdropper