MFT/3 from Festool? How the hell can this be used for woodworking?

No comment from me. I have a vague idea of what the MFT/3 is. A MDF table top with some size of mm holes drilled in it in a grid pattern. And you can use the newer Festool rails and track saw and maybe router on top of it. And expensive posts and other things fit into the mm holes. I never understood the appeal of it. Why not just use your table saw or miter saw to cut the wood? Or if using the track saw to cut the wood, just toss the wood onto a Styrofoam panel, lay the guide on top, and cut with the track saw.

Now, I will admit to creating my own MFT style table. I glued and screwed a set of 2x4s together to make a frame. Then have a piece of particleboard to sit on top. And some pipe sockets and pipes to make legs on the bottom. I can lay pieces of wood on top and straight line rip the edges with the track saw. Then feed the pieces into my table saw to rip to width. Its kind of an elevated Styrofoam panel so I don't have to crawl around on the floor.

I wasn't much interested until the Festool travlin' road show. They were demonstrating some other tools, using the MFT. The setup is very fast and they (of course) were making it look really good. I went back Saturday to look closer without a bunch of Festool employees standing around me. I was disappointed but could still be talked into it by someone who uses one every day. There are just some things about the rail mechanism (the MFT's bottom line) that didn't sit well. It could have been so much more robust.

I have a table with a sheet of MDF on a solid-core door, with edge banding to hold the MDF from moving (it's just sitting there so can be replaced easily). It's great for "ripping" panels down to size but not so great at "cross-cutting".

I plan on drilling dog holes in it but haven't decided on the US 3/4" or European (Festool) 20mm holes. Since the table is so thick (2", IIRC) passing the clamps from the bottom isn't going to work but surface clamps will, which is always a problem.

Since I always work alone and really can't moose full sheets around like I once did (particularly now) so the table saw isn't very user-friendly. I'd like to use it just for ripping and small parts. The MFT is set up to make short work of "cross-cutting" panels. If it were a little better, it could put a miter saw out to pasture.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 6:34:06 PM UTC-6, snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrote:

Again, I have no direct experience with the MFT table. Just seen pictures of it and read lots of comments from devotees about how wonderous it is. But I can't figure out why its so wonderful. I already own a SCMS that crosscuts 12 inches. I guess I could put in stop blocks on one side and flip the piece over so it would then crosscut 24 inches. Maybe that would work OK. SCMS cost $500 lets say. I also own a table saw. Its old now. Delta Contractors saw. I can crosscut and rip with it pretty darn good. Now, I agree working with full plywood sheets is cumbersome. Best to use the track saw and a Styrofoam panel first to cut the plywood down to size. Or to straight line rip an edge on long boards. I probably have at least $1000 over the decades invested into the table saw. Track saw and rails are of course expensive too. But you have to have a track saw and rails to make the MFT work. So you have to buy a track saw no matter what. MFT by itself is $775. Comes with a 42" rail. It can cut 42" by 27". So you still need to buy a new longer rail to even crosscut a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood on the floor before you can even put it on the MFT. And a long rail to rip the plywood on its 8 foot side. And in addition to the $775 base cost, you still "need" to buy all the extra doo-dads for several hundreds of extra dollars. So the MFT table is over $1000 before its in its wonderous state.

As I said, I already own a SCMS. Probably don't need that, but I already bought it. So not going to get rid of it. And I have a table saw that does everything the MFT does. For less money. And I own a track saw and rails. Which you have to buy to use the MFT, so that is a wash. What would a MFT do that I cannot already do now? And I can probably do everything better now too. And faster.

Now, I can understand the appeal of the MFT in certain situations. You are a traveling carpenter living in your van. And all of your cutting is done with the MFT. And you pull it out of the van and set it up on the grass to do all your work. Might make sense in that situation. Or maybe you are moving into the retirement home and you only have a 10' by 10' room as your shop. So you have to sell all your other tools first before moving in. And now you need something tiny to use in your new tiny shop. And you can carry the lightweight Styrofoam panel out onto the retirement home's center lawn when you need to cut a piece of plywood down to size. Before it can even fit on the MFT table inside your tiny shop.

You can buy a second and cut 8' pieces. ;-)

There are certain situations where neither the table saw or the track saw seem to be the right tool. The piece is big enough that I really don't want to use the table saw and setting the track up is a PITA for one cut. I've been thinking about getting a short track and just do that. I have enough track to build a railroad but nothing shorter than 55". I could cut one down on a track saw. ;-) I just might.

No question they're great for installers. At 42#, hauling one around would be easy. I didn't like the wobbly legs, either but this would be an acceptable tradeoff for a mobile workstation. One of the attendees at the Festool show said that he put a shelf across the bottom rungs and it's fine. That defeats its purpose as a mobile saw but solves the wobblies, apparently. They have a router MFT table too. I *really* didn't like how wobbly it was. I know everything is referenced to the top and movement doesn't matter to the cut but I want to work on a solid bench.

Leon has and MFT for his shop and loves it. I was hoping he was still around to answer questions.

I am probably the wrong person to comment in this thread. Since I do not own an MFT and have never used it. Kind of like you. But I look at it and think, I already own tools that can do what the MFT does, but easier than the MFT. So why would I want an MFT? Unless there is a real reason, such as the space aspect or portability aspect. If a woodworker already owns all the tools, then the MFT does not seem like a good replacement. If you are just starting out and have nothing, then maybe the MFT is a good starter that means you never need anything else. Maybe. But I don't think you are talking about that type of situation.

As for shorter rails, I own an 800mm (31"). Not the holey one. Regular rail. I use it a little. But its not much more convenient than the 1400. And if you are cutting short things that fit the 800 rail, then they are about short enough to cut with the table saw or SCMS.

I like my Festool track saw. Its great. And great at many different cuts. But its bad at some cuts too. And the MFT seems to try to improve on the bad cuts. It probably helps. But there are other tools that are the very best for the bad track saw cuts. So why not just get the better other tool. Why try to improve on the track saw and get it just to mediocre. When you can get great with a different tool.

I often get into a situation where I have a long piece (8' for argument's sake) that may be 2' wide that I want to cut cross-wise. A

The MFT is also really good at cutting sheets at an angle. I have to admit, though, that I think I've only needed to do it once. I think it would replace a SMCS, though like most here, I already have one (three, actually).

Do you have an example of these cuts and tools?

This is a really good discussion. It's exactly what I was looking for. I'm really on the fence (NPI).

For the bad at certain cuts, the track saw is not great at ripping to exact widths, or cutting small pieces. I know there are parallel guides to make the ripping to exact widths repeatable. And I suspect they work. Many different companies sell guides that fit onto twin slot guide rails to allow you to get repeatable width cuts. The MFT might also have something like this built in. As for cutting small parts, track saws just aren't really designed for that. If I had a 3" wide short board and wanted to rip it down to 2.5", and its only 18" long, a track saw would not be my choice. Such as the rails and stiles on face frames. But a table saw would do this easy. Or you are making bottoms out of plywood for drawers. You cut them all to 12" width. But turns out they need to be 11" and 15/16" width. It would take you a minute or two to rip them to final width on a table saw with a rip fence. But a half hour using a MFT. And if you had all your rails and stiles in rough lengths. Say 13" instead of the final 12", a miter saw would take care of everything in 30 seconds. Or spend a half hour monkeying on a MFT. Or trying to cross cut small or short pieces with a track saw is also not easy.

But, but, but, if you are sizing plywood sides for kitchen cabinets, top and bottom, then maybe the MFT would be a good choice. Kitchen cabinets are about 24" by 36". Roughly. Maybe more like 22" by 34". MFT once you spend 10 minutes setting everything up, it would handle cutting all the sides of plywood or MDF to official size. Table saw could do this too. And would be my choice. But maybe a 2' by 3' is more than you want to put through your table saw. I have a 52" wide Biesemeyer fence on mine and 4 feet of out table length. So easy for me. But maybe you only have 2 feet of fence travel and no out feed table. MFT might be your better choice. Just slower setting it up.

Also just to add this in. I think the MFT is advertised as being good at making 90 degree cuts. Setup your fence and stop blocks right and then you can just stuff pieces in and cut to 90 degrees using the track saw and rail. But if you are only doing one or two, then maybe you could buy one of those attachments that fit onto guide rails that act like a square. If you only making 2 cuts instead of 20 cuts, then a square attachment might be better than setting up the MFT. Maybe. Or use a miter sled on your table saw. Or a SCMS if under 12".

Most tools have a set of tasks its good at. But not good at other tasks. I'm not a fan of adapting a tool to do everything. That usually ends up being mediocre at best. But I understand sometimes due to cost or necessity you do have to do that.

Again, I am not an expert on the MFT. Ha Ha. Have hardly ever seen them. But they just don't seem ideal for many situations. You can make the same cuts easier with other tools. Likely tools you already own. But for something like making a 37 degree angle cut on bookshelf sides, then it might be the tool of choice. But how many of those do you do in a lifetime? Not saying the MFT is not useful or even ideal in the right situation. But its probably a very small situations.

Track saw great. I like mine. For cutting big sheets of plywood down to smaller pieces, its great. But once you get to the smaller pieces of plywood, then why not use a table saw. Once you get down to 3 foot by 3 foot, I can easily maneuver and carry those size pieces around. They are not 4 foot by 8 foot heavy plywood full sheets. MFT seems designed to work with plywood and wood that is less than 3x3 foot. Table saw and SCMS do great with those sizes too. Why not use them since you already own them? Track saw also great for straight line ripping one edge of long boards. But once you get a straight edge on one side, then why not use a table saw for ripping down to 4" wide. Repeat and repeat until the board is used up. I would not use the track saw to cut all the boards down to 4" wide. Just the first straight line rip. Then go to the table saw.

I suppose you are talking about the guide rail hinges. It works well enough, you have an indexing spot on the opposite side from the hinge that keeps the rail square and or stable. BUT it is a RPIA to set all of that up every time I set up or take it down. So I seldom use it at all in that capacity but I have the extra short guide rail. It used to be that the rail and miter and accessories were a $100 add on to the MFT. The rail alone was worth more than that so I opted for the whole set up 8~10 years ago.

As for the MFT table, I use it all the time. Yet it wobbles but I do not notice that. The clamping elements and hold down clamps, and dogs are constant use items. Great table for the Shaper Workstation.

And I have cut countless, well many thousands of, mortises with my Domino on that table using its dogs and clamping elements. Fast and easy.

The hinge has a lot of play but even with the rail down on the index tang there is a 1/16" play in the rail. The index tang has to be moved for a different miter setting but there is a 1/4" play in the rail without resting on the index. So, how does the opposite side index get set?

The rail miter gauge and everything is now a $200 option but it's still well worth it. I don't see the table being useful without it.

Hadn't though of that but I put some 1/4-20 threaded inserts in my workbench and use knurled brass screws to mount the workstation. When not in use the screws are recessed into the bench top so the threads stay clean. The bench is too thick to fish clamps from the bottom but it works otherwise. I plan on drilling 20mm holes in the top so I can use the Festool mounting parts.

Seems to me you are saying the MFT/3 is a good work table. And you use its associated dogs, clamps, and holes in the table top to hold and clamp lots of things. Great. But what about its main purpose(?) of using the track saw and rails on top to cut things?

I looked on Google and the official MFT/3 perforated top is sold for $172. And Amazon has copies for less. Couldn't you easily make a base out of 2x4s and achieve your usage of the MFT/3? Or get fancy and make a folding base of sorts.

On 11/12/2022 1:36 AM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote: > On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 10:52:37 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote: >> On 11/11/2022 10:47 AM, Leon wrote: >>>> Leon? >>>

Yes you can build a base and mount that top to it.

But a comparable base would have foldable and adjustable legs, side rails for using clamps to hold work vertically, and folds to about 8" thick and stores on its edge/side.

No doubt there are countless options if you do not want the track saw or conturo options for the MFT/3 and no one argues that Festool is not expensive. Bora makes a foldable top for their Cenepede set up that is $42 and about the same size as the MDT/3 table top.

I will restate that I have the stack saw set up for my MFT/3. I opted for that addition to get the 42" track for less than buying the track out right by itself. I cannot remember the last time I set the MFT/3 up to use with the track to cut stock. But I use the 42" rail by itself all of the time. The track saw set up is not a quick set up. You pretty much have to remove the track and, protractor, and mounting brackets if you want to put the MFT/3 away with its legs folded.

The question is do you want something that is Festool comparable and uses all of the Festool accessories or something fashioned like the MFT/3 and kinda has similar functions.

On 11/11/2022 2:27 PM, snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrote:

On 11/11/2022 2:27 PM, snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrote: > On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:47:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

If you need to do "a lot" of "angle" cutting of panels this may be a good choice. I do not cut a lot of angles and my miter saw and or my TS and or simply measuring and aligning the TS track to pencil marks is good enough for me, and I can be pretty anal.

On 11/12/2022 9:19 AM, L

If all you want is an MDF table with dog holes in it, buy a sheet of MDF and a Woodpeckers hole boring jig. The jig and MDF will cost about the same but you can make the table as large as you want. You can make replacements for that at just the cost of another piece of MDF.

If it were cast, it would have a lot less. You can see the sheet metal bending when you put even very little side pressure on the track. In the 90-degree position the opposite side index reduces the play a lot. It wouldn't take much to make it better.

The miter gauge and fence looks like a pretty expensive part to never use. ;-0 Frankly, I've never used my track saw for angles either.

I get 1/8 of a degree - point taken (if I didn't blow the arithmetic

The option implies the table, though. The function is then $775.

THe angle unit comes with the track for that $100.

It depends on what you're doing no? I've been in many situations where it would be nice if the clamp were only 1/2" off the table or so. Cases where I'm using a router, for instance, and don't want to get the router tied up in the clamp. I could see this, in spades, with the Origin.

The parallel guides work exceedingly well. They beat the crap out of a table saw to cut up 4x8 panels lengthwise. I had to cut up 8" (7-7/8") slats out of a 4x8 sheet to mount fluorescent fixtures. It made quick work of two sheets.

If I have small pieces that I want to make smaller, a table saw is easy. Table saws excel at ripping wood. They're not so great with sheetgoods.

FOr 90-degree cuts with a track saw, I just use a large (26" Woodpeckers) square against the track and clamp with either the ratchet style clamps or if the clamps get in the way, the end compression type (don't know what they're called). The 90-degree attachments, or even the protractor type aren't worth the money, IMO. A square isn't any more difficult. The problem with cutting smaller pieces is the rail length. My shortest rail is 55", which gets in the way after the sheet is first broken down.

The MFT would be good for crosscuts and panels wider than a SMCS. For me, that's a high percentage.

That's the beauty of the MFT. It's really good at intermediate cuts.

Universal tools? Not by a long shot but I often get into a situation where the track saw isn't right and the table saw gets cumbersome,

I wouldn't use a track saw to rip boards. It's underpowered for most wood. Great for sheet goods, not so great on hardwood. That's the territory of 3HP table saws.

Not an issue with a TS 75. And remember the growling you hear when cutting is the motor constantly adjusting to maintain a constant speed.

The cure is to NOT put pressure on the track when it is pivoted up and off of the indexing pin. I assure you that even cast will flex.

But all of those parts and the 42" track are $20 less expensive than buying the 42" track alone by itself. I have cut angles with my track saw and quite accurately simply by marking the panel and aligning the track. The MFT/3 with the track/angle option would be better for repeated cuts and cuts narrow enough to fit.

I simply drew it out on Sketchup. A 42" horizontal line and up 1/4" at one end of the line and back to the beginning of the horizontal line. Then measured the angle between the 2 lines.

Yes, the table alone is $675, add the 42"track/miter gauge option for $100 more, $775.

Or the table alone for $675 and add just the 42" track, no miter gauge, for $120 more, $795.

Yes, $20 less expensive than buying the track by itself.

YES, I was just commenting on how I attach the Shaper workstation to the MFT/3. In this situation the Origin never gets close to the clamp handles.

I typically never the hold down clamps unless they are required. I normally use the side clamping Festool Element clamps along with the dogs. When cutting a Domino mortise on the end of a board I place 2 dogs along one side of the board, then a clamping element on the opposite about halfway between the dogs. The end of the board hangs off of the MFT/3 a few inches.

The advantage to side clamping over clamping down is that the clamp maintains it's position and does not have to be readjusted with each board, assuming the boards are the same width. Still even width adjustments are quicker than closing the hold down clamp each time.