"Lew Hodgett" wrote \
uh huh. my friend ... ain't gonna bite on that.
Instead:
... and "reality" can be what you report it to be, providing you harp on the negative long enough.
Certainly are -- and, of course, "since Jan 2000" includes the '01/'02 period--if consolidated at that time then reentered markets beginning in early 2002, some comparisons would be(*)
Since Since 2000 2003 DJIA +15% +60% SP500 0 70 Russ 2000 55 100 NASDAQ -35 100 Oil/Gas 215 240
_I'm_ certainly not complaining... :)
(*) These are approximate taken from
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Look at GE for the last 7+ years.
Was about $65 when Welch retired.
Got as low as low $20s, has struggled to get back in the $30s, never has made $40.
IMHO, not a stellar track record for a first rate company.
As I said, some winners, some not.
Lew .
Pretty straight forward if you ask me.
AKA: "That's nice, but you can do better".
Not my kind of motivation, but have seen enough of it in corporate life to recognise it.
Lew
...
I've never held GE...but judging "the market" on the basis of one stock is more than a little absurd... :(
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I would pay you but there is a shortage of money now :-P
You want an argument, change the subject.
Simply an observation of a pretty decent company.
Personally, had much better results from '93 thru 2000 than from 2001 to date, but that's life in the market.
Lew
You mean like Apple Computer when I got in at $ 60.00? AKA The market's doing great!
I was watching Matt interview that wild and crazy stock guy, Jim Cramer, on the Today show this morning. Finally he brought up a question and was correctly answered. Matt asks, isn't the media partly to blame for the bad feelings and results of people being afraid to spend money because of the recession. He had to ask this twice but Jim finally answered correctly, YES. The problems we have today largely stem from misrepresentation, false information, and deception.
It ain't "News" unless it is exciting. It ain't exciting unless we add some BS to get your attention.
The environmentalists like to throw false figures out there to get the uneducated, and apathetic wound up and excited. Recently they whined about British Airways burning 20K gallons of fuel to make Trans Atlantic flights with no passengers. That may be true but what they were really complaining about was the amount of pollution. They claimed IIRC 400 Tons of carbon pollution. I did the math using their figures and find that burning 20K gallons of fuel that weights less than 160,000 pounds creates 800,000 pounds of waste carbon according to their claims. So burning 1 lb of jet fuel creates 5 lbs of carbon? Nope!
To keep from being burned by the media and while managing your financial dealings, verify for your self because most everything you hear is a sales gimmick of some sort.
I would say you were not paying close attention.
It has done quite well beginning in March of 03 for about 12 months. Again in July of 06 till July of 07 it did quite well,
Over all the Dow Industrials alone is up from about 7,900 to 14,0000 spanning the period of March 2003 to July of 2007. That is a 78% increase in just over 4 years, averaging an 18% gain every year during that period. From March 2003 to "Now" it is up about 60%, bringing the average down to, but still a very healthy yearly average gain of 12.5%.
What would impress you, a better money manager perhaps? ;~)
You cannot judge the "market" by "a" poorly performing stock. If you want to see a good example, look at Google.
Pollution in general, or carbon pollution specifically? It makes a difference.
A *lot* less. Figure somewhere around 6 lb per gallon.
Depends on what's being measured. Carbon, no. Carbon DIOXIDE, nearly. Total combustion products, probably.
Principal component of jet fuel is n-octane, C8H16 (molecular weight 112). Complete combustion of same: C8H16 + 24O2 -> 8CO2 + 8H2O. Molecular weight of CO2 is 44, and there are eight of them (352 total, or almost 3x the weight of the fuel).
Molecular weight of H2O is 18 (144 total). Thus, mass of combustion products is 352 + 144 = 496, which is about 4.5x the mass of the fuel.
Considering that high-temperature combustion in air also produces some NO2 and NO3, it's likely that the total mass of all combustion products probably really is close to five times the weight of the fuel. Of course, more than a third of that is water vapor (read: cirrus clouds), and it takes a special kind of mind to regard clouds as pollution.
Carbon Specifically.
I was giving them the benefit of the doubt and used the weight of water. I knew jet fuel was lighter.
Carbon, "not" Carbon Dioxide
Again, they tell you what will benefit their cause the most, correct or not correct.
Who's not paying attention here? He said "since 01/01/00". Not "since March of
03".DJIA close on 31 Dec 1999: 11,497 DJIA close yesterday: 12,466
That's 8.4% in just over eight years, for an annualized rate of return right at a whopping ONE PERCENT. After adjusting for inflation, stocks have been a horrendous money *loser* "since 01/01/00".
Conveniently ignoring the 61% *loss* between 14 Jan 2000 and 9 Oct 2002...
A 78% increase in 4-1/3 years is a 14.4% annual rate, not 18%. (You're not taking compounding into account.)
57% in 4 yrs 10 mos = 9.8% annually, not 12.5. (Compounding again.)For starters:
- addressing the point raised
- not cherry-picking time periods
- correctly calculating annual rate of return
In that case... they're either liars, or idiots, or both.
They're probably considering carbon dioxide to be "carbon pollution".
Agreed. Only questions in my mind are whether they know their figures are wrong, or not -- and whether they care. My point was simply to illustrate that the mass of the pollution generated can indeed be considerably greater than the mass of the fuel being burned, because it combines with a huge amount of atmospheric oxygen.
Good God DOUG! Is March 03 NOT SINCE 01/01/00????????????
And now you chang the game to suit your whims. 12/31/99 IS NOT since
01/01/00I cleaned out my blocked senders list but it gets anotther familiar name today.
If some of my nags would decide it's time to get out of the starting gate and back in the race
Lew
Lew, I feel your pain and frustration and AMOF just got off the telephone with my money manager. I have done pretty well since 03/03 but not as well as the market. Weeeeer gunna make some changes pretty quick.
"Leon" wrote
ROTFL ... unlike the DJ, some things never change!
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