My ceilings are 11' tall, I am 6' tall and my wife is 5'4".
I have considered a short step ladder however, the bookcases will be sitting on top of two file cabinets. The file cabinets will extend approximately 8" out in front of the book shelves and the file cabinets are approximately 42" tall. This, for safety reasons, is why I am choosing a ladder that will lean closer to the upper shelves.
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The taller ladder would act as a hand rail.
In the picture, I have a 9' ladder that rests against the face frame of the middle and side cabinets. That is the only line of shelving that is stationary/fixed. all lower shelves on the sides are adjustable so they would not make a good support for the ladder.
"IF" I were to add a library ladder bar along the bottom of the center cabinet and extend in front of the adjustable shelving on the side cabinets I could perhaps shorten the ladder to about 8' or a little less.
Leon - how long did it take you to complete your drawings? I have a friend of mine that owns a small remodeling company that just can't get it kick s tarted. He has been in the business now for many years, and does indeed kn ow what he is doing.
As a sidebar, he has a degree in business that was a double major. He went to a school in CA that had a degree (that had to be coupled with business) in cabinet building. So when he graduated he was fully qualified to run a ll aspects of a cabinet shop, and was trained to do all aspects of the work needed from using the shaper to accounts receivable management.
He hated working with only one or two guys in the shop, and he loathed work ing alone.
This is a guy I spoke to you about before, one that you generously allowed me to send some of your renderings (along with Swing) to him. He was pumpe d up, as he was still doing his drawings by hand. I had lunch with him a wh ile back, and he had not finished his online Sketchup courses, and was star ting to forget what he had learned. Now you sent me the renderings almost two years ago, so I figured he would be whizzing along with his sketches by now.
I can't get him to understand that using Sketchup is like me using a public ation program, a word processor, or any other kind of layering program. Ce rtainly the end product is the goal, but using software, the end product is achieved in a very efficient manner. To me, the key to learning to use an y program that will produce a finished product is the complete ease of endl ess editing. After watching you and Karl, I opined to my buddy that this w as no harder than learning the photo editor I use, the publisher I use, or the advanced features of my word processor. He was enthusiastic as hell!
Now, we meet again, and he has fallen on his old ways. It takes him weeks to render new drawings, days to redraw a detail or two, then it has to be s canned, compressed and checked for readability if he wants to email it. Ot herwise, he has to hand carry drawings he paid to have printed over to the client and the doodle their changes on the newest renderings and start agai n. This is the way business was done for decades, but not now, nor had it been done this way for about 10 years. He is rapidly falling not just behi nd, but out of the race altogether.
I would like to make one more pass at him, send him the drawings you publis hed here, and some commentary from you on how long it took you to do those. If this doesn't work, I give up. He is literally losing business as he s ees himself as a "traditionalist", and he thinks folks like to see his hand drawings. Actually, the probably do, just not a month after he makes his changes.
He needs the level of detail that you can generate with your drawings as he always finds clients that are cabinet/built in heavy. Otherwise he could get one of the many pieces of software out there (some free!) that allow yo u to move walls and cabinets around in a rudimentary way with pretty render ings.
Just a few words, sir. I am worried that my buddy will be out of business soon, as he won't move into this century. His other problem being that he doesn't know how to promote his company makes his lack of technology a kill er.
If I had to guess, and to the extend of those referenced above, 6-10 hours each, total, but that is playing with design changes too. I have never sat down and worked start to finish on one big project like those referenced above. I was not sure where I was going to end up at the beginning. BUT modifications are easy.
When I present a drawing to a client I typically print the drawing to a PDF file and send by e-mail They prefer this to anything else. Some of my engineer clients actually load Sketchup up and I send the drawing file for them to explore. I can send a PDF of any angle they want to see. Modifications typically take 30 minutes to an hour depending on how complex the modifications are. Adding wood grain to give the drawing a life like look takes 3~5 minutes.
I might add that I use an optimization program to tell me how to cut my inventory of lumber/sheet goods for maximum efficiency, whether that is to save material cost or to save "Leon time cost".
Adding the named wood grains to the drawing also tells the optimization program what materials to use for each part.
Oh and I use a plug-in program in Sketchup to import all of the component/parts into the optimization program.
I will say that if he dedicated a weekend to learning the program he would be able to do 95% of what needs to do. BUT the learning curve would be greatly reduced if some one that is good with the program spent time with him. Tutorials do not always emphasize the importance and why to do things a certain way.
ALSO, and I can not emphasize this requirement enough. Both Swingman and I have mentioned so many times we are almost blue in the face. In fact a neighbor that is getting into woodworking was asking be about problems he was having with Sketchup. This is probably the same problem that every one has when learning Sketchup. Anyway, the neighbor came over and when I showed him WHY he needed to learn to do this step I think I literally saw a cartoon light bulb illuminate above his head.
While it seems trivial, as you can certainly draw with out taking this extra step you might as well be drawing with a paper and pencil. With out fail you should always make every piece/whole part of the project into a COMPONENT. In Sketchup lines that touch stick together. If you draw a cabinet door and do not make the center panel and each rail and stile into COMPONENTS you will have great difficulty in moving or modifying any part of the assembly. If you draw a cabinet door with out making the pieces into components and try to modify a part the other lines of the other parts will stick and stretch into strange angles.
If you modify a "component" no other parts of the drawing are affected.
Additionally you can copy a component to another open spot on the screen and modify it with out other parts, that it may be attached to, being in the way, blocking your view. When you copy a component and modify it, every copy of that component will automatically update, including the original. I will often copy the component to an open location, modify it, and then delete it. The original is still in its original location with the modifications. This simply does not happen if you don't turn your parts into components.
How do you make a group of lines into a component? Hi light all the lines you want to be a component, right click and choose, make into component. You have the option of naming the component, a good habit to get into.
I am not saying that your friend is not using components but most every one that finally realizes that you should make all parts into components typically sling shot into being much more productive.
The order of drawing should be like this, a cabinet door for example.
Completely draw a rail or stile, but only one or the other but lets choose the stile. Then make that part/group of lines into a component. Now draw the rail and attach it directly to the stile while drawing. Because the stile is already a component the rail lines will not stick. Once that is drawn make those lines into a component. Next copy the rail to the opposite end and flip it to make it a mirror image. Next copy the stile to the opposite side and flip it to make it a mirror image. Draw the center panel, make into a component and place in the center. It typically takes less time to to do than to type. ;~)
Yeah, that is no good. Modification should be easy and quick.
You can lead a horse to water.....
FWIW I copy part of my drawing to a blank area and move the parts apart for reference/clarification.
The guy is so used to 2d drawings that he might be better off with a
2d Cad type program. It would be more familiar to his style and once he got used to the commands, and just redoing his basic prints for mods, and finds how simple it is then He might feel better moving to a
3D program.
He could take some of the drawings he basically modifies for other jobs and have then scanned on an autocad type scanner, and load them into the program of his choice also he can see how easy it is to modify and edit known drawings. Once he see's the time saved he'll be in for the game.
I remember trying to get one of my sons to work with a word processor but for some reason his head was stuck on a typewriter. After a couple rewrites as demanded by his teacher, each taking him an how to retype
I scanned in one of his papers that basically had a few spelling errors, but needed sections cut n pasted in for reformatting. He say me edit it and print the whole thing out in under 5 minutes ready to turn in to his teacher and that was the last time he ever wrote things out by hand and then typed it. LOL, even his lightening fast mind realized he could be out messing around instead of being stuck inside doing Homework.
That is a thought but IMHO 2D programs are not any easier to learn than Sketchup. AND if you want you can draw 2D in Sketchup pretty easily. The "got'cha" though, is than customers want to see 3D. 2D does not always convey the message to the customer.
IMHO there is NO better drawing program for a woodworker than Skethup especially considering its price for the Make or the Pro version.
I have used IMSI Designer in the mid 80's moving on to Turbo CAD a few years later, then 3 versions of AutoSketch, then AutoCAD LT when it was first introduced as a Windows program, plus multiple costly upgrades. And then about 8 years ago Sketchup, under Google, became the easiest for me to use and my customers know exactly what they are getting.
That's how I started. I used a program called CadStd, and still do use it, that got me started about lines being a certain length and things in a coordinate system.
From that point on, it was easy to translate the skills into Sketchup and also into CamBam for my mill. Sketchup can read DAE files, which CadStd can export.
If you're strong on mechanical 2D drafting, CadStd will probably be easy to pick up. If you're used to more art-like drawing, another program may work better.
I used mainly AutoSketch, had lots of tools very easy to use, and IIRC I could also do Isometric drawings. Or at the least show the top and sides different view points so I could tell like 3d what was messed up. The support was on and off again but still it was simple.
I know like Sketchup even though the fix and then break things on their updates, but I see that going the way of a closed shop at their first opportunity.
OK, now see... that's what he needs. First, thanks on his behalf (and mine ) for taking the time to write out a detailed reply. If he could generate those drawings for cabinets (which occasionally he builds them for an insta ll) he could speed up his production XX times. He has to do the work to fi gure out the start dimensions anyway, so why not let the program finalize a ll measurements, modifications, and generate the drawings to exact scale?
Plus, Swing showed me that he could design and offset gable when designing a roof profile that would incredibly measure the correct pitch angle (in de grees) for the main rafters! How cool is that? He had a couple of adds on his that he showed me, but with my knowledge of framing (and my handy span table book) I could design a roof structure in minutes, and best of all, l et the client see a drawing of my work. Another sidebar... I don't design anything but small structural objects these days as the litigious society w e live in precludes me from doing so without a State license. One small mi stake or the perception of a mistake and it would be off to court for me "p laying engineer". Clients pay for the engineer, he stamps the drawing, and Robert builds as directed.
However, that certainly doesn't nullify the tremendous utility value of a g ood drawing. Thanks again, I will pass this on (again).
He needs 3d, and he needs it now. There aren't that many remodeling compan ies here in town, but they all have a draftsman, usually a man/woman in the ir early 20s that took a lot of drafting in college and are working part ti me. His competition can get out great drawings fast, and in many cases the y can generate some simple drawings at their first meeting. Some of today' s programs are so easy to use that the sales guys use them on a laptop when they go on site. If they do a rendered drawing with dimensions somewhere along the line, they watermark the drawing and charge the client for their time.
Check this out and click the play button on the small screen that is NEXT T O the button that says "get started":
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This is his competition. This is what the other companies are armed with. He needs a program like this to show his clients he is in the same century as his competition, and he needs to build his fluency to make sure he can whiz through it on site. BTW... that's just the first one I clicked on whe n I GSed "free 2d remodeling software". There are dozens other, most giving a free working edition for a short time, or a free version stripped of som e handy or necessary tools.
He needs that so the clients can visualize. But, for his own use he needs Sketchup. Leon and Swing have both showed me drawings that are killer when you are the one building from them, and better yet, if you find a job disc repancy when using their drawings, you call and say "hey... don't know what happened, but we have 174 3/4" across that wall, not 186 3/8" Could you s end me drawings that reflect that overall measurement? Leave the drawer ba nks and the kitchen base the same, and take it out over the span of the oth er carcasses". Then they say, give me some time to get to the computer. Y ou will have your drawings tonight." And you know that all the door sizes will be changed, the base units will be correctly dimensioned, etc.
I carry my laptop 99% of the time, and so should he. I regularly pull into McDonald's to get a cup of joe, and modify my reports, annotate pictures, edit pictures and text (some are several legal pages long) add commentary e tc., then resend to my clients. I also write change orders, final bills, p rogress draws, opinions, estimates for work and anything else I need to rig ht on the spot. Depending on the job and how involved I am on a given day, I am known to set up on a job, work on my paperwork, save it all, then at lunch/dinner/home, somewhere with wireless, and send it all out in multiple emails I have written as drafts.
The competition is fierce, and now rapid, quality service for a client is m ore important than ever before. You can bet your butt if I was doing full time remodeling I would bring my traveling office and software suites where ver I needed it, and would probably buy a big screen laptop for presentatio ns.
Honestly, I can't figure what is holding him back. He is a smart guy, he i sn't some Luddite, he just can't get out of his rut. If he doesn't, he wil l fail and that will be a shame.
There doesn't seem much he can't use there for re mod ideas. Just requires being only and their premium package allows you to brand the software, or so it seems, while you use it. That could sure land a job onsite with a customer, and then go back and use SketchUp with the layers etc. or he could hire a draftsman to work off the drawings on that sketcher program along with the notes for the customer.
You are absolutely correct that it could be a game changer.
Maybe you should go with him to a job site using the program off a tablet with a link to a cell phone or whatever, and work with him as an advisor on one job to help land it. Either it would pique his interest, or he could hire you as a consultant? Just a thought. ;)
For a loft area, I added a simple 1/4" X 1" flat-steel bar across the loft edge to act as a hooking point for the ladder. The bar was secured with lag bolts every 12" using washers to allow for a 1/2" gap between the bar and the face of the loft edge. Simple upside down "U" hooks were installed at the tops of the ladder rails. To use it, the ladder is simply hooked over the bar, very secure, but you still need a proper angle depending on how you plan to climb the ladder and if you intend to carry anything (climbing with one free hand).
The bar can certainly be more decorative (brass or painted), or you could use a length of 1/2 to 1" black pipe. Storage for the (8 foot) ladder was to simply hang it horizontally on the bar.
Plenty of ways to do this, but I think in your case, "how it looks" has more priority than convenience features like wheels (which make the cost of hardware really shoot up).
I have planned for something like this. The mid face frame rail in the center cabinet and the corresponding areas on the side cabinets have a lip, the shelf is 1/4" lower than the face frame. I was going to incorporate a hook at the top of the ladder to hook over the face frame to prevent it from sliding down should the bottom of the ladder slip.
But I may revisit the off set bar, or closet rod. Paint the rod black and build the ladder out of common construction grade material and paint it black.
Now keep this is mind. Swingman uses the Pro version and that will set you back 7~8 hundred dollars. I use the free version and it takes a bit longer to modify a component. And in an environment where time is money you want to modify as quickly as possible.
If I were doing this for a living, I would be using the pro version. But you know what I do this for. ;~)
The pro version offers many enhancements that Swingman uses. For instance the cabinet should fit a certain space and you find out the cabinet needs to be a different size. I have to modify certain elements, Swingman, I think, only has to change the properties of the cabinet. The pro version uses "dynamic" components that can change much more quickly if needed. The free version only uses "normal" components. With dynamic components only certain pieces/components will change size. To confuse matters even more, LOL, Lets say you are drawing a cabinet door used from measurements in the field. Make the separate pieces of the cabinet into components and finally make all of those components into a single component called a door. With dynamic components when you modify the "door" component the width of the rails and stiles may stay the same but their lengths may change.
All in all I would advise for your friend to start with the free version and upgrade to the pro version as he becomes proficient with the program and his productivity/demand increases.
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