Library ladder

I am getting close to needing to build a ladder for my 10'+ tall book shelves. I'm probably going to go the less expensive route and simply build a lean-to ladder. Fancy hardware and wheels and bars and stand offs would be at least $1,000.00.
Anyway has anyone done this? I am in particular wondering what the minimum angle should be to prevent falling backwards. I am not going to attach the ladder to the book cases, my plan is to put rubber feet on the bottom and maybe felt pads where it will lean against the book case. I'll just pick it up and move it as needed.
I am certain a normal step ladder ladder is probably a good angle but I do not want to take up any more floor space than necessary if I leave it out and leaning against the book case all of the time. Alternatively I can stand the ladder at the end of the cabinets out of the way.
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http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic 0235
Use the 4-to-1 rule: Make sure the ladder is 1 foot away from the wall for every 4 feet that the ladder rises. For example, if the ladder touches the wall 16 feet above the ground, the feet/base of the ladder should be 4 feet from the wall. If you are going to climb onto a roof, the ladder should extend 3 feet higher than the roof. The upper and lower sections of an extension ladder should overlap to provide stability.
-or-
75deg -- Figure 13-1: Ladder Angle: http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/296_97_10
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On 4/17/2017 12:27 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:

Thank you! My current allowance is 18" for 108" and I thought that looked way to unstable.
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Yep, 108/4 = 27"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuHUcWQGY0

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On 4/17/2017 2:57 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:

27" is my new calculation! Thanks again.
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wrote:

Leon, the thought just occurred to me that you could use unistrut, with a pair of rollers but instead of using the rollers on a vertical install, use them on a horizontal or sideways install.
https://www.grainger.com/category/strut-channel/strut-channel-and-accessories/wire-cable-and-carrier-systems/electrical/ecatalog/N-10wu?searchRedirect=unistrut
And a couple trolley's. http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNISTRUT-P2751-Wheel-Light-Duty-Trolley-/351906280819?hash=item51ef3fb573:g:hxoAAOSwA3dYK1O0
You could make a silicone plastic slide to grip the underside of the Unistrut effectively keeping the wheels in contact with the Unistrut. and then bolt a ladder to the whole assembly. Then make a simple wheel setup for the bottom of the ladder. with a little bit of work, and painted to match or contrast your book cases it should cost total less than 150, I'd think. And should last until the house fell down.
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On 4/17/2017 1:27 PM, OFWW wrote:

Thank you, That is something I'll put some consideration into...
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"Leon" wrote in message

Leon, Rockler has the hardware for a rolling library ladder for half your estimate. Here's a link:
http://www.rockler.com/rockler-classic-rolling-library-ladder-hardware-kit-satin-black
Tom
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On 4/17/2017 2:04 PM, tdacon wrote:

ahhh. I went through that kit build again and the hardware is about $700. I must have remembered with pricing with the wood included. That adds $400. If I supply the wood I can get the price down to $800. Still kinda pricey.. ;~( BUT going in the right direction.
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On 4/17/17 1:18 PM, Leon wrote:

For a loft area, I added a simple 1/4" X 1" flat-steel bar across the loft edge to act as a hooking point for the ladder. The bar was secured with lag bolts every 12" using washers to allow for a 1/2" gap between the bar and the face of the loft edge. Simple upside down "U" hooks were installed at the tops of the ladder rails. To use it, the ladder is simply hooked over the bar, very secure, but you still need a proper angle depending on how you plan to climb the ladder and if you intend to carry anything (climbing with one free hand).
The bar can certainly be more decorative (brass or painted), or you could use a length of 1/2 to 1" black pipe. Storage for the (8 foot) ladder was to simply hang it horizontally on the bar.
Plenty of ways to do this, but I think in your case, "how it looks" has more priority than convenience features like wheels (which make the cost of hardware really shoot up).
-BR
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On 4/22/2017 9:19 AM, Brewster wrote:

I have planned for something like this. The mid face frame rail in the center cabinet and the corresponding areas on the side cabinets have a lip, the shelf is 1/4" lower than the face frame. I was going to incorporate a hook at the top of the ladder to hook over the face frame to prevent it from sliding down should the bottom of the ladder slip.
But I may revisit the off set bar, or closet rod. Paint the rod black and build the ladder out of common construction grade material and paint it black.
snip

Exactly.
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Wow... a lot of good info flying around today. I will be keeping that ladd er safety pdf. I do some consulting, and that is a great summary of ladder safety and use.
Leon, you might want to take a look at the "unistrut" suggestion from OFWW. Check with your local electrical supply house under the name of "Kindorf" since that is the way they sell it. I pay about $60 for a 10' stick, and that would take care of your length. The trolley wheels make that workable for you as you can modify them to be a face mount on your ladder itself.
On the backside of the ladder you could mount a couple of workbench wheels that would allow easy movement of the ladder. Tons of them on Amazon:
https://goo.gl/aydc19
You could mount some wheels to the bottom of your ladder sides, and then pu t some adhesive in the bearings so they didn't swivel, but rolled freely on a straight line:
https://goo.gl/LLBg0H
You could get these, put rubber feet on the bottom of the sides of the ladd er, and lock them up to move the ladder (3/4" lift) and then roll your ladd er in place. Again, swivel to straight line rolling and easy cure.
https://goo.gl/GplKkp
If you want an underwire buy 1/4" all thread. HD has it cheap, something l ike 3 bucks a stick. You can groove the bottom of your steps to receive at least part of the radius (or not) and finish the ends of the all thread wi th an end cap nut over a washer. Lay out all your hardware and spray paint it the color you want before assembly. If you mortise your steps into the sides (really Robert... it's Leon... it will be dovetail mortised and Domin oed... !!!) then you can assemble with all thread only and no other attachm ent needed except maybe a high viscosity glue for the end grain (step) to l ong grain joint above the all thread.
One thing I would certainly do that is cheap and easy would be to build a m ock up ladder out of 2X4. That way you can check for clearance, ease of use , step distances and verify your dimensions. You could build a lean to moc k up with $10 worth of material, and a nail gun in minutes, knock down afte r you are happy and use the 2X4 parts for something else.
Love to see what your final decision will be.
Robert
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On 4/17/2017 3:04 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

No kidding! ;~)

I was actually thinking of using a piece of wood on the back side of the legs to keep the legs from spreading and to reinforce each step.

After considering the weight of about 18' of 1x8 white oak I may just use 2x4's for the legs and 1x4's for the steps and some knarley nails! LOL That is a good idea though because the bottom of the latter will project about 40 inches into the room at the bottom. The ladder will lean in 27" + the depth of the top cabinets, about 13" and stand off from the wall..... The weight of the white oak is starting to concern me and I may have to go with the wheeled route...
I would really love to keep this simple.
Hell I may have to bring the 9' ladder in through the window...;~(
Maybe a remote controlled wench on a ceiling track. I could hook on to my back belt loop. ;~0
I have to get the cabinets up on the file cabinets and hang the bridge up over the entry doors first...

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On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:25:48 -0500, Leon wrote: <snipped> > Hell I may have to bring the 9' ladder in through the window...;~(

You will quite likely find that librarians are *very* independent these days, and locating one with a remote control interface will be a challenge.
Good luck, though!
Colin
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On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 5:26:01 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:

You could install a wooden version of the MARS set-up that they have at the University Of Nevada - Reno.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kz6N1de7lE

Those stacks would require quite a few dominos.
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On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 12:48:57 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:

Are you getting younger or older? Conserving space and storing the ladder out of the way sounds like a great idea now, but how about 10 years out?
We're getting designs for a new front stoop and walkway. 2 steps for the stoop and then another up into the house. One of my criteria for the design is the ability to add a railing at a later date.
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On 4/17/2017 4:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Yeah, I already discovered that the ladder will not stow away beside the cabinets and moving a 9' ladder in to the hallway through the kitchen and somewhere else is not going to be fun.
.....Maybe I will buy a 16' aluminum extension ladder. ;~)

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wrote:

Could you build a ladder holder (not sure of the nomenclature) to hang it on one wall or the other so it sits fith the climbing side towards the wall.
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On 4/17/2017 4:22 PM, Markem wrote:

Not sure what you are asking and or addressing.
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wrote:

Trying to relate an idea and not succeeding.
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