Kitchen Progress

It all looks really good and I'm sure it will be very enjoyable once complete. Lots of countertop next to the range is always nice.

I just (like 10 minutes ago) finished moving my 5 receptacles and 2 switches to make room for the new countertop that SWMBO is still deciding on. I've already made my choice, so it's really up to her at this point. As long as she doesn't pick something that I really dislike, I'll be fine. The one I chose ticks all of her boxes - as in the colors in the stone (not just for now but also if we want to repaint in the future), it picks up a little of the color from the new floor, it's got a matte finish vs. polished, etc. Everything she wants, plus the price point is right where we want to be. Of course, she doesn't "want to settle" so she's still looking. What can I say?

We're shopping for a drywall contractor to "unstiple" the ceiling. I found a guy who was recommended by a neighbor, but pinning him down for an estimate took forever and now I can't get him to commit to a time to do the job. I just got a new recommendation today from coworker who flips houses, so I'm going to give him a call. I haven't signed anything with the other guy and I'm strongly considering cutting him loose. I hate chasing people down.

Regarding your relocated receptacle. You said that the cabinets hide the old one. Assuming you turned the old receptacle box into a junction box and extended the wires, I hope you didn't hide that box behind the new cabinets. That's a code violation. At a minimum, you should cut a hole in the back of the cabinet so that it's accessible.

Thank you.

LOL THAT still continues. We will be going out again to look "again" and to have several providers come out for measurements.

Yeah, I would look for some one else. He is likely not going to be dependable.

Yes, I turned the old wall outlet box into a junction box and added a metal cover with a protected "L" coming out of it to guide the Romex out of the box. From there to the new outlet between the 2 cabinets. It is all accessible if you remove the bottom drawer.

FWIW, "accessible" means that you must not need to remove "obstacles" for access, per the NEC.

I'll have to live with that. ;~( I guess it could be argued that the

The accessibility rule applies to junction boxes (which must not be hidden), not receptacles.

Ohhhhh. So technically the box is simply an in and out to house the wire nuts extending the cable going to the new location. No other cables come in or out. But yeah, there is probably some rule against that too.

Be careful when you use the word "outlet." That is (sort of) not the same as a "receptacle". The following was stolen without permission from:

Code Change Summary: The definition of a “Receptacle” has changed.

A receptacle is always an outlet but an outlet is not only a receptacle. Ceiling fans, luminaires and other hard wired connections are all connected to outlets. An outlet is defined as “A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment”.

A receptacle however has always been something that an attachment plug is connected to. With the introduction of new products comes the need to revise certain code definitions.

Now, the 2017 NEC® definition of a receptacle includes “devices for the direct connection of electrical utilization equipment designed to mate with the corresponding contact device”. This makes it clear that other products, like in the image, are considered to be receptacles even if a plug cap is not used.

Below is a preview of Article 100. See the actual NEC® text at NFPA.ORG for the complete code section. Once there, click on their link to free access to the 2017 NEC® edition of NFPA 70.

Receptacle. A receptacle is a contact device installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug. A single receptacle is a single contact device with no other contact device on the same yoke. A multiple receptacle is two or more contact devices on the same yoke.

Receptacle. A contact device installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug, or for the direct connection of electrical utilization equipment designed to mate with the corresponding contact device. A single receptacle is a single contact device with no other contact device on the same yoke. A multiple receptacle is two or more contact devices on the same yoke. (CMP-18)

FWIW, only one type of Accessible (Readily) involves the word "obstacle", per the NEC.

Most junction boxes (like in a home) don't have to be Readily Accessible. "Accessible (as applied to wiring methods)" is what we're talking about here.

Article 100.

Accessible (as applied to equipment). Capable of being reached for operation, renewal, and inspection.

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to take actions such as to use tools (other than keys), to climb over or under, to remove obstacles, or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

That's the definition of a j-box :-).

The reason the code forbids that is that the next owner or the electrician trying to diagnose an issue down-stream has no idea that your j-box is there, and then there is a potential fire hazard at any j-box depending on the method(s) used to make the connections.

Forbids *what*?

Are you saying the junction box behind Leon's drawer would be considered "hidden" per the NEC? If so, please provide the relevant article.

That's a junction box. Your location is perfectly fine.

"Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building."

Drawers, cabinet doors, free standing bookcases, beds, etc. None of those are "structure" or "finish". Now, the solid back of a kitchen cabinet, a built-in bookcase, a Murphy bed...those might be an issue, even though they are not technically "structure" they do fit many definitions of "finishes".

One other thing worth mentioning...

I don't how the box for that relocated receptacle is mounted, but the second paragraph below applies to your situation.

"314.20 Flush-Mounted Installations Installations within or behind a surface of concrete, tile, gypsum, plaster, or other noncombustible material, including boxes employing a flush type cover or faceplate, shall be made so that the front edge of the box, plaster ring, extension ring, or listed extender will not be set back of the finished surface more than 6 mm (1/4 in.).

Installations within a surface of wood or other combustible surface material, boxes, plaster rings, extension rings, or listed extenders shall extend to the finished surface or project therefrom."

I just did a shiplap wall and had to use extenders on all the boxes to bring the boxes flush. Luckily I had just enough wire to meet the 3" required by 300.14.

BTW...AFAIK, nothing prohibits stacking extenders, which often helps if you need more capacity in a box. e.g. this is technically compliant, although some may say that it violates 110.12. ;-) (Look it up)

I know. LOL I was able to go stick my head and torso through the drawer opening to get to the box. :~) Large drawers.

FWIW as I understand it a home owner can do most anything to his home code or no code. It is the licensed electrician that has to follow the rules.

And this connection that I am extending terminated at that wall plug. It was a simple connection, there were only the single ground, neutral, and hot wires coming in. I understand the concerns but if my connection fails it will not affect any of the other outlets on the circuit.

I think that depends on the county you live in. And possibly your insurance company (although I believe that to be urban legend).

Some locales don't allow unlicensed electrical work (I've personally seen horrible homeowner work on several occasions, including using AWG18 speaker wire on a 20a circuit).

There may be failure modes that could cause problems, a loose neutral for instance.

My guess is you are not going to invite an electrical inspector to check and sign off. With it being a terminated no worries for you just a puzzle for the next home owner.

I'm sure a homeowner could do whatever they want. Of course, when it comes time to sell, that could be an issue. This "no contingency" thing is a bit of a game. The buyers may say "no inspection" when they put in an offer and then ask for one afterwards "or we'll cancel the deal". That's when homeowner performed stuff can come back and bite you if it's not done to code.

That depends on the mode of failure. Fire can affect lots of things. That's why I brought up the new receptacle and article 314.20 regarding the box being flush with the finished surface. The box and/or extension rings are there to contain sparks (and small flames) from causing serious issues.

You'd be surprised how many videos showing how to install tile, shiplap, etc. neglect to mention the requirement to extend the box. Some of them, especially "homeowner" made videos, actually show the receptacle mounted right on the wood shiplap with the box sunk into the wall half an inch. Yikes!

While some of the code may seem more of a nuisance than it's worth, there's an underlying reason for it: safety of the homeowner and service personnel. Just because homeowner is allowed to do their own work, that doesn't relieve of the responsibility to follow the code. I do my own electrical work (other than replacing a service line or panel) and I'm confident that everything I've done is up to code. e.g. When I installed the inlet for my portable generator, I made sure I knew what the code was for everything from the plug end of the generator cord to the exterior inlet box to the interlock on the panel. A homeowner may be "allowed" to put a male plug on both ends of a piece lamp cord and plug the live end into any random receptacle, but that's not how I roll.

Possibly so.

Yeah, that wold be bad. LOL

Understood but my connections were pretwisted with pliers and nipped to equal length before the wire nuts were added so I believe that this will not be an issue.