(Amazon.com product link shortened)
Ye gads, talk about the high priced spread.
Somebody was running a sale on triple blade throw away razors.
Made in India, distributed by an outfit in Hollywood, CA.
They do more than just make movies in Hollywood.<G>
Pack of 5 razors for a $1.00.
I bought a pack, they worked great.
Needless to say, went back and bought another $20.00 worth.
First throw away I've been able to get more than one shave
in a long time.
They also had a sale on EDGE shaving cream.
If it didn't work, wasn't out much.
Turned out to be another winner for me.
This is pretty close. It's 5 packs of 10 for $16. About 30-cents a
I understand they are made by Gillette to sell in India to their customers
their who will not pay $3-4 per razor like some do here. Once in a while
I am disappointed with a blade, but I like the deal compared to what I find
available in retail these days.
I don't think that .18 cents a piece is that bad.
What about cutting your own, just thickness on the bandsaw or tablesaw,
rip to width, route roundover then cut to length... certainly you can
make a few hundred in an hour. If you do it right.
You could make your own or get some one else to make them for you
at your price.
Spent too many years negotiating deals to walk away from an
Oh, easily. Initial setup is the big time consumer there. Once you've got the
right thickness on
the planer, and the correct height on the router, producing tenon stock at the
rate of nearly a
foot a minute is no problem at all.
For all the tenons I use with my Multi-Router, I cut both thickness and
width on the table saw, and length using a sled, or miter saw if they
need to be mitered; then a roundover bit on the router table.
Cut'em just a RCH thicker than the mortise, then a quick touch on the
Delta drum and belt sander for a precise fit.
I think you guys may have too much time on your hands... ;~)
That said, I do things like that sometimes but most of the time I don't have
the time... if I spent time on that I'd never get the real project done!
The combined operation of cutting mortises on the Multi-Router, and making
custom sized loose tenons, cuts shop time labor by at least 30%, more If
compound angles are involved. Built way too many M&T tables and chairs,
both traditional and floating, to not have thoroughly experienced, and
documented, the benefit of those two alternate operations alone. And that's
not counting the resultant time savings due to an increase in ease of
fitting parts cut with a bit more inherent, and repeatable precision.
Although I don't own one, a Domino, while not as versatile, will save even
more time, easily making up for the cost of the tenons, either making or
FWIW the most common sized tenon that I use is the 5mm one, especially for
the more complicated joints that I make. They are about a penny more
expensive than a biscuit when purchased by the case. The 6 mm tenon being
approximately 1/3 the thickness of 3/4" stock is marginally more expensive.
I can't imagine making 1,800, 5mm tenons to save $80. I have used about
2,800 of the 5mm tenons alone, that's 5,600 mortises. Can you imagine
making that many mortises with the Jesem jig?
The larger Domino unit however uses much larger and much longer tenons.
Making your own would probably be worthwhile.
It’s the making the tenons part, not the mortise part, that would burn time
that pulling tenons out of a box wouldn't. Setting up machines to rip,
joint, thickness, round over, cut to length, etc., to relatively tight
consistent tolerances takes time... I suppose if you make 100s or 1,000s of
them in what otherwise would be down time it would be OK, and cost
effective, but in the middle of a job it strikes me as a time burning
The operative words "Multi-Router", "combined", and "custom sized loose
For 1 1/2 x 1/4 x 2" loose tenons:
I can set the fence and rip a 1x2x8 board into TWO boards of 1/4' thick
stock in less than five minutes on the table saw, with setup ... and
that's being pokey.
I can easily make 8 roundover passes with the resultant two pieces on
the router table in less than ten minutes, with setup.
I can easily cut 2" tenons from that stock on the table saw/sled at a
rate of 12 tenons/minute, or approximately five seconds each, with setup
of the stop block on the sled.
And, indeed, on this last four barstool project, my detailed record of
shop hours (which I strive to keep accurately to facilitate bidding on
future jobs), indicates that I spent 30 minutes cutting the 80 loose
tenons for four complete chairs.
That's 30 minutes for ALL the project tenons ... Now tell me how long
would it take you to cut 80 tenons in the ends of 40 chair components?
Cutting custom loose tenons a "burning distraction", not quite ...
... but what it is, is the difference between actual experience with an
operation, and just talking about it. ;)
Wow, I guess my estimation was spot on. :-)
Now, figure out how long it would've taken to get on the computer, find
the best price, place the order and get back out to the shop to work.
Even if you could do it on the iPad in 15 minutes... now, you're waiting
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
Ok, maybe you can make them that quick. But, there's other factors to
consider too. Setup time, clean up time. However you want to lay it
out, there's always other things to consider too.
Your carpentry pays for your living and your time is often not just
leisure time. Making loose tenons compared to buying them is not as
simple a comparison as it sounds.
If you had really read the post, you would have noticed that "setup
time" was included.
I don't do "carpentry"; the context of all my replies thus far have
clearly contained the operative words "Multi-Router", "combined", and
"custom sized loose tenons"; and in ALL cases I was clearly and DIRECTLY
addressing ONLY the time issue involved.
So, what was it for then? Maybe an exercise in what if?
In the real world, you make your living in the building trade. Time is
money. However you want to slice it using a multi-router or whatever,
making your own tenons compared to buying them is NOT an equal trade
"Swingman" wrote in message
On 2/2/2013 7:35 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
I think you miss my point... which in a commercial environment becomes even
more critical. That being that time is money. I'd think that on the very
low end shop time is worth at least $50/hour and more realistically probably
more like $100+/hour in many markets (to cover labor, profit, and the fixed
and variable costs of having the shop and equipment [taxes, heat/cooling,
electric, interest, maintenance, insurance, holding costs of inventory,
depreciation, etc., etc.]). I have one associate whose commercial shop
costs him about $35K/year whether he makes anything or not... at 40 hours
per week for 50 weeks per year he needs to charge $17.50/hour just to cover
the fixed costs!
That said, excluding the cost of the wood, in round numbers, that puts the
cost of your 80 tenons between $.31 (($50/2)/80) and $.63 each (($100/2)/80)
plus the cost of the wood. As a rough cost comparison, the Rockler site
lists 600-Packs of Festool Domino Beech Tenons, 8x22x50mm at $82 with $12
shipping. That works out to $.16 each. Even if you used two per joint and
charge $50/hour they are cheaper to buy than make when you take the cost of
the wood into account. Value engineering would ask if it makes sense to use
a "custom" size when functionally a "standard" size would do the job for
lower cost. In a commercial environment maintaining some inventory of
fasteners and adhesives is requisite when you take the opportunity costs of
"running to the store" or "making upon need" into account so buying 600 for
inventory would not be unreasonable. In a hobby shop environment, the
discretionary time available to many, if not most of us would be more
pleasantly spent on the primary project not on creating "standard"
fasteners... even at about $.28 each for quantities of 100 delivered.
Not saying it cannot be done and not telling you how to spend your time
(money)... If you can charge full shop rate and cover the material cost for
making tenons it doesn't matter much. If you are discounting that time in
any way (from under pricing, or charging what it would cost to buy them
rather than make them, or forgetting to charge period) then you are taking
money out of your pocket... I'm simply looking at the situation through a
different lens here. I'm also not saying I haven't spent time making things
that could be bought cheaper when all the opportunity costs are taken into
I totally agree for professionals, but not for the hobbiest. Most of us
spend a lot of time not doing projects, but doing small work. Consider
this a small work task that can be done just as efficiently and for no
real cost other than the cost of wood, which I think many of us have
strips of wood that would make the teonons cheap to make and use up some
of the off cuts we have.
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