"If" the device works correctly only 1 time, you could have an additional
100 false trips and the extra expense would still be well worth the extra
cost. $200 per trip is an assumption. If you are using an inexpensive
blade the trip is closer to $100 or less including the new cartridge. A
majority of the triggers save thousands of dollars in medical costs. Most
all that have reported false triggers have been compensated in some way by
SawStop and have been assisted in determining a reason and remedy for the
Accidents happen whether you practice safety or not. NO ONE is 100%
incapable of having an accident. To think otherwise is pretty naive.
You're going to buy an expensive saw and use a cheap blade? Um...
I made my assumption using a WWII blade which is a pretty standard
blade, if you want to throw a $10 Home Depot cheapie blade in your
saw, more power to you.
But if you spend all your time quivering in fear that someday, you
just might have an accident, why bother doing woodworking at all?
Woodworking is an inherently dangerous hobby. You will get cut. You
will smash your fingers with a hammer. You will get splinters. Most
of these things are pretty unavoidable.
If you're that paranoid, you should take up knitting.
No, I just don't think that people should rely on nanny safety
equipment, they should learn how to be safe and use the safety
equipment as a backup. Otherwise, it's all about evolution in action,
the stupid get culled from the herd. If people have to be told not to
lay on a running table saw because something bad might happen...
something tells me these people deserve to be laying on running table
saw blades, they're just too stupid to survive on their own.
At least one of the woodworking magazines has added that mantra to their
inside cover page, apparently in response to the legal beagles and in
the interest of political correctness. I tend to disagree not in
principle but in level of it being an "ordinary" level of danger
associated w/ the activity and not worthy of mention per se.
Re: the list of accidents, other than the splinter, I can't recall the
last time one of the others has happened to me. Not that I'm somehow
magic, but I do tend to be careful. Having hit myself w/ hammers in the
past has taught me not to do that any longer.. :) I have a very strong
aversion to _ever_ cutting myself again severely, and for that reason
have very serious evaluations of how I try to carve/cut on stuff...I'm
not a professional carver, though...
Unfortunately, we live in a very sue-happy society where not only do
you have to tell people to be safe, you have to do it in such a way
that a brain-dead chihuahua could understand it.
I've never managed to cut anything off my body I didn't intend to,
neither did my father in a lifetime of woodworking, neither did my
uncle in a lifetime of woodworking. Why? Because we all learned that
whirling metal blades of death meeting flesh is a bad thing. We
learned how to work safely, we learned that if you do something that
feels dangerous, chances are that doing it at all is wrong. You know
something? That's what kept us all safe. Not having nanny-equipment
that doesn't let us be stupid, but learning not to be stupid in the
first place. That's really where I object to all this anti-stupidity
equipment that has come along. It doesn't teach people to be safer,
it teaches them that they can be idiots, the equipment will keep them
from having any consequences to their stupidity.
Honestly, I think people need to suffer the consequences of their
idiocy, otherwise how do you learn not to be an idiot?
You are sooooooo naive. You talk about those people that need to suffer the
consequences and yet you are headed right down that path and don't see it
You know the saying, you don't know enough to know that you don't know.
Whether he actually owns one is mostly irrelevent in this case. As well,
there can be other reasons why a proponent of Sawstop safety might not own
one. Leon is arguing the benefits of the Sawstop in this case against
Brian's "impossible for me to get hurt" responses. I fully support the
safety features of the Sawstop myself, but don't own one. And since I know
you're going why, I'll indulge you with the primary reason I don't own a
Sawstop. I use a wheelchair and the Sawstop table surface is too high for me
to use in as safe manner as I'd like.
However, that hasn't stopped me from seriously considering one. I've
examined the Sawtop closely in person and inquired about the possibilility
of cutting down the Sawstop cabinet to lower the table. But, the additional
mechanical components needed for the safety features in the Sawstop make it
impossible to lower the table. Other makes of cabinet tablesaws however, can
be lowered without extensive mechanical modification and that *is* something
that I'm actively pursuing.
Given enough time, yes it is inevitable. In the case of Brian Henderson
possibly, possibly not, but his "impossible for me to get hurt" attitude
makes him more vulnerable to accident. And the ironies of life have a way of
biting one in the butt when they least expect it. Not that I'd want to see
Brian or anyone else be hurt just to satisfy that irony, but his attitude
certainly mandates a good scare on the tablesaw just to bring him down to
No one has ever said it's impossible to get hurt, but the reason I
haven't gotten hurt isn't because I've got the
safety-equipment-from-hell, it's because I know how to work safely.
Is it possible I might get seriously hurt someday? Sure, anything is
possible. Am I going to be paranoid about it? Nope.
We see far too many people who rely on technology to keep them safe
and just don't bother actually learning how to *BE* safe in the first
place. That's the objection.
I don't believe that's the case in any of the discussion here...
And, if you'll read Sawstop's literature, you'll note it specifically
points out the technology does NOT prevent accidents, it merely limits
the consequences of one...that can't be all bad.
Which is why they originally wanted to require all saw manufacturers
to license their technology, right? I'm not saying you can't buy a
SawStop if you want, it's fine with me if you have that kind of money
to throw around and want to feel safer, I just worry that feeling
safer makes people less careful and less prone to practice safe
You should be relying on yourself, not on your tools, to keep yourself
from being injured.
I don't think that follows directly, no. Why they wanted manufacturers
to license their product was they had a large investment in a product
which they thought marketable and had an (initial) business plan that
didn't include making the saw themselves.
Their technology was/is certainly clever, innovative, and successful in
addressing a market niche, but that's required of almost any product to
It's not a zero-sum game, though. Again, to reiterate, Sawstop does
nothing to _prevent_ an accident; in fact, an accident has to happen for
it to have any effect (neglecting the Type II error). It will almost
certainly mitigate the effects of that accident, however.
Safety is dependent on a combination of all the things that goes into
the operation from the design and manufacture of the tool to the music
blaring in the background. Operator attention and proper usage is
surely a major factor but as others have noted, the unexpected is often
And, as my final word, again from my experiences w/ accident analysis, I
can't number the times I've heard the expression of "I've _always_ done
it that way!" or "It seemed safe to me!". And, of course, those stories
were told by those that survived to tell their tale... :( It is
certainly fortunate that the most severe of woodworking incidents are
not likely to be fatal.
You do have a good point. If seatbelts and airbags were removed from cars,
people would pay more attention to driving and the accident rate would
plummet. For the few that do die, that is just "thinning the herd".
Think of the money to be saved by ditching head restraints, ABS, and
collapsible steering columns. A section of 1" pip can to the same think,
lots cheaper. People have just become to complacent.
I'm surprised that no one hear has realized the solution. The expanded foam
tablesaw blade. Easily fitable to any saw and would render it totally safe.
What an idea. I could make millions.
wrote in message
HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.