How to murder people with wood?

[J. Clarke]

If noncitizens are mistreated in the US on a regular basis then maybe they'll think twice about coming here.

[Morris Dovey]

| In article , "Morris Dovey" | wrote: | || The right to cast a ballot does _not_ determine an individual human || being's right to fair and just treatment. | | I never said that it does, and you're reading carelessly if you | think I did. I | brought that up only to illustrate the point that the set of rights | held by | citizens, and the set of rights held by non-citizens, may overlap | -- but they are *not* identical.

I think I understand where you're coming from; but I see only a single set of rights with an absolutely minimal set of exclusions/reservations for those judged unable or unwilling to make decisions in favor of the common good of the American people.

I do believe that it is in our best interests to ensure that Justice's scales are kept in balance - and that her blindfold never slips.

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Morris Dovey]

The right to vote was offered as a generalization; and my point was that it wasn't a particularly good proof of the point Doug seemed to want to make, since /most/ laws don't apply only to citizens. I'm aware of other laws containing exclusions as well; but as a general rule our laws apply to all within our purview.

|| Further, || non-citizens in the United States have the right to bring lawsuits || in the same manner as citizens; and are subject to lawsuits in the || same manner as US citizens. | | And what provision of law established this "right"?

Good question. IANAL so I'll invite you to inform me. I have an acquaintance who is both an attorney (US) and a barrister (UK) who should be able to give me a good answer. I'll ask next time I see him.

|| The right to cast a ballot does _not_ determine an individual human || being's right to fair and just treatment. | | You are missing the point entirely.

In what way? (Are we each having separate discussions?)

|| Citizenship does _not_ || determine an individual human being's right to fair and just || treatment. | | No, it determines what laws apply to him.

Not even that. A person becomes subject to American law (perhaps as well as the laws of that person's country of citizenship) when they enter territory under the purview of American law. An American citizen in any other country is subject to the laws of that country as well as the laws of the United States.

If you don't believe this, I'd suggest you not travel abroad.

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[John]

When do you guys get time for woodworking?

[Morris Dovey]

| If noncitizens are mistreated in the US on a regular basis then | maybe they'll think twice about coming here.

It's been my privilege to work here in the US with citizens of (more or less alphabetically) Australia, Bahrain, Britain, China, France, Germany, Hungary, India, Ireland, Netherlands, Pakistan, Poland, Russia, and a couple of *stans.

Every single one of 'em was a hard-working top-rate professional; and every one of 'em enriched my life in some way completely unrelated to the work we did together.

YMMV - but I'd have to wonder why...

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Morris Dovey]

| When do you guys get time for woodworking?

During the day, Monday thru Friday. :-)

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[fredfighter]

It doesn't.

True enough. If you read the Constitution, something that is rare among those who comment on it, you will find that the framers used the word citizen, or not, as appropriate.

Examples:

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it. ... The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any state, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Congress may by law have directed. ... No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; ... nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted

The foregoing apply to all persons within the jurisdiction of the United States whereas the following apply only to citizens:

... The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States ... The right of citizens of the United States, who are 18 years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied ...

[fredfighter]

It is a civil right.

[Bob Martin]

Do you work in the Department of Tourism ?

[J. Clarke]

9/11.

[Morris Dovey]

|| YMMV - but I'd have to wonder why... | | 9/11.

Then I am truly sorry that in your anger and grief you were unable to see or hear most of the rest of the world grieving with us and for us - and reaching out to console...

...and I regret even more that those responsible for the attacks were able to bring about this gulf between yourself and the far greater number around the world who wish us well.

That disconnect is as much as they could possibly hope for.

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Bob Martin]

And have you looked at the nationalities of those killed on 9/11 ? About 100 were British.

[J. Clarke]

And perhaps if we were more careful about who we let into the country and scrutinized them more carefully while they were here those British might still be alive.

[Burgy]

True, as evidenced by the way they all rushed to jam through the 'new world order'(nafta and wt). We are governed by a bunch of elite class wanabees. The problem is, they are too dumb to realiize that the real elite class of the world won't even talk to these clowns. They just make fun of them while they take over the US economy. In another 20 years, there will be no 'America' as we old farts grew up in. Actually, that is already gone. The America my father fought for in WWII is dead. We are going to be a 3rd world country, the real purpose of the above. It is still necessary to vote, if for nothing else than to keep up the ruse that it actually makes a difference who is in the whitehouse. And always try to pick the 'lessor of the two evils' or evil of the two lessors which seems more accurate... Elections are just a game the 'elite wanabees' play with us to keep us at each others throats so we won't unite and go after them. The very same thing the Muslims in power do. They keep their followers hating us so thay won't go after the real people keeping them in the gutter.

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