garage light

[Christopher Shoenleben]

Need to find some 8 ft. garage/shop lights--any suggestions? Thanks Chris

[eganders]

If you are looking for the fluorescent tubes, I think I have seen them at Home Depot. If you are looking for the lamp assemblies, may I suggest 2 - 4 footers? The 4 foot tubes are cheaper and more available.

[Upscale]

A store perhaps?

In regards to Dvorak's rant about the dumbing down of North Americans, I don't think it's anything of the sort. It's nothing more than sheer laziness. Too lazy to look for themselves, so they ask a question like the one above hoping that someone else will do the work for them.

[Never Enough Money]

Actually he's paying rec.woodworking member a compliment. The posting should have read:

"Hey wreckers, I know I can go to Home Deport or Lowes and gets some 8 ft flourescent lights. But, I was wondering if you folks could give me some tips, reassurances, or point me to the cheapest place (maybe on the net)?"

Is that what you meant to say, Christopher?

If America is dumbing down it because of the zeal of educators to teach to the lowest common denominator and the huge influx on non-English speakers.

If American's are lazy, then it's because labor unions have driven wages high while driving work low.

Now let's see how many flames those statements provoke.....

[Never Enough Money]

If you live in a cold climate you should make sure the ballast is electrostaic, not magnetic.....or maybe I have that switched...Anyway, one is better in the cold.

[Christopher Shoenleben]

[Pounds on Wood]

Chris, disregard the smart-ass comments from others. The question is not as dumb as it might seem. First off, I much prefer 8' tubes over the 4's. The stupid little pins on the 4's are a PITA. The fixtures tend to be junk compared to the more expensive 8's as well. Yes, the 8's cost more for the tubes, but they last many times longer than the 4's and cost less in the long run. I've got 4 years, and a shop relocation, on these tubes and have not burned one out yet. There is a reason why commercial buildings use the

8's, where labor to change tubes is a big factor.

As for finding them, I outfitted my whole shop with discards from store remodeling. Cost me nothing for 8 fixtures which I mounted in 4 rows of 2 each. In California, and I assume other locales as well, remodeling requires code upgrade to energy efficient fixtures. Find someone doing remodels of commercial buildings and you can probably get all the old fixtures for free. They will end up in a dumpster anyway.

-- Bill Pounds

[Upscale]

No, ignorance is not making the least bit of effort to explain yourself properly. As well as being a critical SOB once in awhile, I do go out of my way to help someone with a suggestion when I can. Instead of saying that you need to find some 8ft. shop lights, you could just as well have said that you need to find some water. Next time, state what type of water, what grade of quality you're looking for and if anyone has a replacement suggestion for the water. If you can't at least do that, then expect the smart-ass comments.

[gpdewitt]

Agree with Pounds on Wood, I got 8 4' fixtures and tubes when a local office had to remodel. While I would prefer 8's, I can't complain about the price(free), and I got a couple dozen extra tubes with the fixtures. Much improves the shop to spread the light around, and I installed pull chain switches on those I would not be needing on a regular basis. My father was a mechanical engineer for the state (CA), and his answer as to how to light a work space was, if you can hold your hand out flat over the work surface at 12" high and see a shadow, you don't have the lights positioned right. Another factor is avoiding glare off shiny tool surfaces.

[Never Enough Money]

Smart ass-comments, who needs 'em? Oh wait, did I just make a smart-ass comment?

Lighten up, Upscale.

[Stephen Young]

Never Enough Money wrote:

Wrong. Not a flame but a first hand education. Many of my relatives are/were blue collar General Motors employees & I was once employed by GM as a GMI (General Motors Institute) student. As a student sponsored by GM Truck & Bus I was on the team to meet weekly with the plant manager of Plant 2 in Pontiac, MI. where they used to make over the road Astro tractors. All of these students were directly out of high school with the exception of myself. 22 years old due to affirmative action quotas so I had been in the general work force for a few years. I asked the plant manager directly (to the dismay of the sponsor liaison) - why doesn't GM get rid of the lazys, drunks, druggies, etc. I know many hard workers that would gladly take their places. I had tried myself for 4 years to get into GM after high school - it's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you b__w. The plant manager proceeded to explain that it's far CHEAPER to keep these miscreants on the payrolls than to employ better people. Reason being the good employees would have genuine grievances at times & file them accordingly (ergonomics, dangerous working conditions, etc.). GM knows these grievances are valid but very expensive to address so they negotiate with the union to keep these losers if they are allowed to THROW AWAY many grievances. This manager seemed almost PROUD to explain the facts of GM manufacturing life to me & the other students. Many people don't know some union representatives (those in the office) are paid 7 days a week regardless of what they actually work. Most unions are in the back pockets of corporate America. Here's another great situation. A former boss of mine was once a Pontiac Motors engineer. Very intelligent guy, parents were Phd's. He was given a task to design the rear deck lid hinges, mechanicals, etc. for a Pontiac car. He submitted his design to his supervisor who studied the design & asked him if he REALLY wanted to submit it. My boss reviewed his work & asked if there was something wrong with his ideas. His boss said no, actually it was TOO good - he would not be able to submit improvements later down the road & receive bonuses for these improvements.

I'm so sick of the unknowing blaming all the ills of the US workplace on unions, lazy workers, etc. Start looking where you should, at the top - management. There are laws & rules in effect that govern blue collar conduct, union or not. It is management's responsibility to enforce these policies. Blue collar or white, it comes down to this - DO YOUR JOB!!!! I'm not in a union nor do I feel I want to belong in one. When you see it first hand, you'll understand.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Neither side is wearing a white hat here. Unions vary in quality but most seem to no longer represent the worker, but only care about the union and its officers. I've been in meetings with the union reps when the contract was coming up. The rep laid out the entire scenario of what he was going to ask for, what he would settle for and what he NEEDED for the union or he could not agree to a contract. Negotiations were a farce. The workers thought he was fighting for them, but it was a big show.

OTOH, before unions labor was often exploited by management and working conditions were horrid. They turned the tables in many cases and went too far, thus the featherbedding and inability to get rid of useless people on the payroll.

[Stephen Young]

Not saying either side is faultless. Just asking why do so many people feel there isn't a way to try to right the ship? Status quo is how we must go? Good employees see bad ones get away with just about anything & maybe get a slap on the wrist. Now they are at fault for saying anything negative about the workplace? I hear this constantly where I work - don't worry about problems around you, just do your work and shut up. Try to help out to improve efficiencies & productivity & you're the bad guy according to management. I like to think I'm trying to make my workplace remain in business for another day. Workers don't get to change/enforce policies. The emperor has no clothes.

[Never Enough Money]

I think you helped me make my case. Thanks!

Although labor unions once served a purpose, they have become greedy selfish entities. Yes, CEO do get paid too much when compared to the rank and file -- maybe. CEO are paid too little when compared to professional atheletes. Just my opinion.

Unions are one of the major causes that jobs have gone overseas. Thye continues to rachet up wages and benifits to unrealistic levels.

What makes you think I'm "unknowing". The fact that you worked at GM and had some exposure to a union doesn't make you an expert.

Union's have the constant tiresome mantra -- look at top management. Now there's where I have the same credientials you have. I'm part of top management and it's not so easy.

[Never Enough Money]

Do you work in a union shop?

[Stephen Young]

No I don't. Many members of my family do however. I did work at a place for 6 months that was a Teamsters plant - what a joke. Again, the union supported bottom feeders.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

One of the problems with present union rules (and many large non-union businesses) is everyone is the job makes the same money. Hard to reward the top producers as it is to get rid of the low end. Small shops have more leeway and individuals are noticed more.

[J. Clarke]

Best job I ever had, good work environment, good people, as long as the work got done they didn't really care too much about when and where you did it, stock was at 50 bucks a share and we were _going_ places. Well, while the guy that was taking us there was off in Europe drumming up 50 million dollars in new business some yahoo who came to be known as "The Green Rat" to the employees was in New York sucking up to the majority shareholder. So he replaced the guy who was in Europe as CEO. 5 years later I decided just for jollies to buy a block of stock (that's 100 shares). It was either that or a hamburger and I wasn't all that hungry that day. Besides, the stock was cheaper. Came across the certificate the other day.

Simple fact is that a business in a mature market isn't going to grow very much unless it can come up with some way to take share from the competition, find a way to make the market larger, or find a new and untapped niche.

I like the folks who say "just do it". No wasteful preliminaries like planning and costing.

[Stephen Young]

Don't think so.

Ever hear of Enron, Worldcom, etc. NO CEO is worth what these jokers get. CEO are paid too little when compared to

Professional athletes? Poor analogy - entertainment industry = way inflated $.

You are obviously not aware of what goes on in a union today. The fact that you worked at GM

Never said I was - telling of my experiences & many relatives' experiences.

They constantly say it because it's true & they can't fire management.

All I keep hearing from management is "You have to do more in less time with less supplies & hardly a thought of a pay raise - we have to "grow the company" You know, increase profit margins so my measurables show I'm worth that big bonus". Why do you "HAVE" to grow the company. You need to make it COMPETITIVE. Have you ever given thought to the idea of "growing" the company down to learn how to be competitive? No, you're looking at a 1 year time frame max to sell your concepts to get that bonus/raise. The company I'm at right now is being sold because the new (2 years service) COO bankrupt the 30 year owners/founders by selling them an idea that they could be a Tier 1 auto supplier. Through his contacts he got approx. 100 GM jobs launched at the same time. 160 employee company was no where near prepared to do this. I'll be the first to say the owners are not good businessmen. They let this guy trash their company because he spoke of grand increases/improvements. I guess that's what the latest management gurus taught him. "If you believe it, it will happen".

[Ba r r y]

Your local electrical supplier?

Barry