Face Frames, Euro Hinges & Overlay Doors

I've started building the base cabinet for SWMBO's kitchen bookcase project .
The base cabinet will be 33" wide by 32" tall, with an ~50” book ca se on top. I'm using 3/4" (nominal) Poplar plywood for the cabinet boxes and book cases. The base cab inet doors will be shaker style overlay doors, like these (just doors, no drawers)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KEKkDdQn3cE/hqdefault.jpg
I've been reading about face frame widths and 2" seems to be a common size. I know nothing about the Euro style concealed hinges, but I assume that I need to factor t hem into the face frame and door design. The plan was to use 3/4" (actual) poplar for the fac e frames and doors. Everything will eventually be painted.
I'm looking for advice, sources, steps, etc. regarding the hinges and face frames. This is one of those "I don't know what I don't know" situations.
Thanks for any and all input.
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On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 07:56:46 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

Not to compete with the good advice you will get here but the Lee Valley product descriptions often include an "Instr" link with some good details. http://www.leevalley.com/en/Hardware/page.aspx?pU420&cat=3,41241
John T.
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On 1/2/2018 10:23 AM, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

Just a FYI, I agree with your example above, the Lee Valley link... BUT the link provided, where I normally buy that referenced hinge, is 1/4th the price of the Lee Valley hinges.
At the moment about $2.25 per pair vs. $10.60 at Lee Valley in quantities of 50 hinges.
Just in case you have been buying those hinges from LV.
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I've started building the base cabinet for SWMBO's kitchen bookcase project.
The base cabinet will be 33" wide by 32" tall, with an ~50" book case on top. I'm using 3/4" (nominal) Poplar plywood for the cabinet boxes and book cases. The base cabinet doors will be shaker style overlay doors, like these (just doors, no drawers)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KEKkDdQn3cE/hqdefault.jpg
I've been reading about face frame widths and 2" seems to be a common size. I know nothing about the Euro style concealed hinges, but I assume that I need to factor them into the face frame and door design. The plan was to use 3/4" (actual) poplar for the face frames and doors. Everything will eventually be painted.
I'm looking for advice, sources, steps, etc. regarding the hinges and face frames. This is one of those "I don't know what I don't know" situations.
Thanks for any and all input.
Regarding the face frames, you need to consider how much overlay you intend to have on the doors. That will affect your choice of hinge too as there are various overlays available in hinges..
I always make my door overlay 1/2". That means that if two adjacent doors hinge on the same stile, 1" of the face frame will be covered. If your face frames are 2", the reveal will be 1". If there are NOT two adjacent doors hinge on the same stile, the reveal would be 1.5".
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On 1/2/2018 9:56 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

With the style Blum Euro hinges I use I never really consider the face frame width dimensions.
Use the size face frame that looks good with the doors and drawers closed. Got Sketchup? ;~)
I use face frame euro hinges that mount on the "EDGE" of the face frame stile. I have used surface mount Euro and those are a PIA, IMHO so are the carcass mounted Euro hinges.
I buy these in lots of 50 to get better pricing, still this place has good prices for lesser quantities.
https://www.wwhardware.com/blum-compact-38n-105-self-closing-hinges-b038n
I can discuss a number of variables but would not want to bore you with details that might not pertain to you.
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On 1/2/2018 7:02 PM, Leon wrote:

FWIW I always use the 1/2" overlay screw on hinge.
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On 1/2/2018 7:03 PM, Leon wrote:

ONE MORE thing. Euro hinges typically use a 35mm/1-3/8" flat bottom hole in the door and they must be accurately placed from the edge of the door. Do you have the capability of doing that? A DP is necessary IMHO.
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On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 8:21:13 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:


ook case





IMHO


38n


Addressing all of your points here...
re: "Got Sketchup? ;~)"
OK...I deserved that. ;-) "Someone" sent me a set of drawings that I've dabbled with but have not spent nearly enough time on.
re: "I buy these in lots of 50 to get better pricing, still this place has good prices for lesser quantities. (wwhardware)"
I'm waiting on my (your) heavy duty levelers from them as we speak. I'll check out their hinges too. I think I want soft close but not sure yet. The doors for this unit will be practice for the 20 other doors I plan to make for the rest of the kitchen.
re: "I always use the 1/2" overlay screw on hinge."
A 1/2" overlay was my plan.
re: "35mm/1-3/8" flat bottom hole...A DP is necessary"
Not a problem, just need to buy the bit. Of course, I could chisel out square holes and then cut rounded corner fillers on the band saw. ;-)
re: "I can discuss a number of variables but would not want to bore you with details that might not pertain to you."
As I said in my OP, this is one of those "I don't know what I don't know" situations. Therefore I don't know what variables might or might not pertai n to me. In any case, I doubt I'll be bored with any details you wish to discuss.
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On 1/2/2018 9:04 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Sketchup, any drawing will show you the proportions better than simply calculating a number in your head. Typically I like the outer exposed perimeter of the face frame to appear wider than the portions between doors and drawers. I also like for the exposed outer face frame width to be between 1/2 to 2/3 the width of the doors and drawer frame parts.

I have never been a fan of soft close doors, IMHO they can cause undue stress on the face frames if "forced" to close faster than their delay mechanism would normally allow. That may of may not be a valid point but it is what I think every time I close a soft close door.
If the door is solid enough, read that as the panel does not rattle when closing normally, soft close adds little noise control. I have 3/16" glass in our pantry doors and those doors are adjusted so that there is no slap sound when they close. The glass is tight and the door bottom and top strikes the FF at exactly same time. I get a light sound similar to a "timpani" in the distance.

OK, and normally with that hinge the door is 1" wider and taller than the opening.

All set! However, I drilled hundreds of holes with a typical Forstner style bit with a shank about 3~4". Several years ago I bought a Rockler carbide bit for that purpose and it has a shank about 1" long. I wish it had the longer shank for deeper holes. The Rockler bit is pretty much suited for drilling hinge holes and that is about it.

FWIW my FF's are wide enough to allow for about 1/4"~1/2" to extend past outside the cabinet carcass. PLUS 3/4" for the Carcass side panel to dado into the back side of the FF. PLUS 1/2" to 3/4" on the opposite, inside, of the carcass side panel The 1/2" to 3/4" on inside allows for a same thickness piece of plywood to fill the gap between in the inside edge of the FF and the cabinet panel. This allows slides to have a solid mounting plate even with the edge of the opening.
Notice that inside drawer opening detail here. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/32181390844/in/dateposted-public/
And the outer detail here. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/32748305786/in/dateposted-public/
And how the carcass side panel fits into the grove on the back side of the FF here. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/32878681092/in/dateposted-public/
One more example of another cabinet. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24004908934/in/dateposted-public/
Let me know if you have any other questions.
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On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 10:32:42 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

...snip...

IMHO, I don't see why anyone would force a soft close door closed. Ever since I installed the soft close drawer slides in my kitchen, I just push the drawers towards closed and let the mechanism do the rest. I don't see why I would close the doors any differently, although I'll admit I've never lived with self closing or soft closing doors.

I guess I wasn't thinking of the soft close feature as a noise control device. I just like the coolness of having the mechanism take over after a gentle push. ;-)
I'm going to try the soft close on this project. If I don't like/need them, I can switch to the self close version for the 20+ plus doors. Much cheaper.
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On 1/3/2018 6:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Almost every person I know has pushed closed a soft close drawer. Most all drawers and doors are self close and most people push them closed until just before they slam. IIRC soft closer start the soft close several inches before the door is closed. You do get used to this but those not familiar will still try to close the doors.

Most of the soft close hinges can have that feature defeated. At least the Blum brand that I use. The ones I pointed out are normal however.
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We've had them on, believe it or not, the Amish furniture we bought ten years ago. We've never had any need to push the drawers closed. Just a little touch and they travel the rest of the way. Why would one force them?

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On 1/3/2018 9:58 PM, snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrote:

If you are used to soft closed drawers they are great. But most friends that don't know about our soft close drawers push them closed. And the doors work differently they tend to start the soft close about halfway closed from full open. You tend to hold on to the door so that it does not slam, well past the point of the soft close feature engaging.
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On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 10:32:42 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
...snip...

What's in the fridge?
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On 1/3/2018 6:29 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Frozen stuff.
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Same stuff as outside?
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On 1/3/18 9:46 PM, Leon wrote:

Beer. You ain't foolin' no one.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
  Click to see the full signature.
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On 1/3/2018 10:33 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

No the temp gauge on the freer says 4 degrees F.
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