Do you care where your tools are manufactured?

[Doug Miller]

Not nearly as much horseshit as your mythical fifteen-dollar apples. Like I said... do the math.

[Doug Miller]

They were picked by Americans, of course, and we all paid $15 apiece for our apples at the grocery store. Don't you remember?

[Brian Henderson]

Going out and picking fruit has no impact on the economics of it. Try again.

[Brian Henderson]

The same is true of all the jobs that are largely done by illegals today. We didn't just start having maids in hotels after the illegals showed up, Americans did those jobs just fine then, they'll do them just fine now.

[Doug Winterburn]

Child slave labor! In the case of strawberries, my mother sent myself and two brothers and two sisters off very early each morning during the season to pick berries. The berry growers had their own old school buses that made a regular route through the neighborhoods to gather up all their little and big workers - there were many adults who also worked the fields. As I recall, we were paid 25 cents/flat. The laundry costs may have been more than we made, but mom was probably very happy to have all five of gone from dawn to dusk. And yes, it was back breaking work for a ten year old, but that and mowing lawns (push reel mower) was my summer income. I suspect that most folks over 50 had some similar summer jobs as kids.

[dpb]

Well, there were far different forces in play then than now -- early on, of course, many of those jobs were indentured or other forms of working off passage. That evolved into the various ethnic groups in sequence of the various European groups -- Irish, Polish, Eye-Talian, etc., etc., etc., ... Each gradually was assimilated and tended to work themselves up into the economic strata and no longer had to do such menial work for the most part. For quite some time after emancipation there still was little real opportunity for those and that tended to last for quite some time (certainly until after WWII) before those barriers became low enough that significant fractions could readily go elsewhere. Then, come the 60s we had large numbers of boat people up until now...it's larger now in absolute numbers because we're larger and also because the demographics are changing in the US age distribution. I've also previously pointed out the problems we have of what unemployed we have being, for in large part unemployable or not being willing to be employed as there are systems in place that make it far easier for them to not be so...

The "send them all back" chant is good populist political rhetoric but it doesn't solve the problem. The unfortunate thing is that neither major political party has any interest in really seeing _any_ problem "solved" as that would mean whichever was the leader would have political advantage at their expense (real or imagined) which power is the do-all/end-all at present. Unfortunate, but all too true...

--

[CW]

[Mark & Juanita]

Americans did those jobs just fine back then because there were people who needed jobs to live and took even low paying jobs until something better came along.

One of the means to make sure that the laborers are available is to end the dependency class mindset we have in this country. Sure, some jobs aren't very appealing or inviting -- they aren't meant to be careers, they are meant to be a stepping stone to the next job or pay for education. My grandmother cleaned houses when she was young. I raised pigs when I was going to college, others have waited tables, etc. Why in the world should people think that the rest of the country owes them a living just because the jobs available aren't glamour jobs? It might mean that people will have to move to where the jobs are and leave behind family and friends; I'm sorry but that is life in the world. All of the angst over how much the military costs, or the failures of this technology program, etc we hear daily. But do we ever hear anything about the wasted trillions of dollars dumped into a system that makes it more profitable for someone to stay home rather than take a low-paying job or that built houses for unemployed people in Appalachia, but after the houses were built left the residents in nice houses in an area where all the jobs were gone?

[mac davis]

I am NOT a Billary fan, but as I recall, she's had a few real jobs, hasn't she? Now, as for her husband, THAT is a career politician..

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

[CW]

Doug Miller's only contribution to this group is to argue. He does nothing else. He does not seem to care if he is right or wrong as long as he is arguing. He has joined the rest of the idiots in my bozo bin.

[mac davis]

I'm coming up on 30 years...

5, 19 and 6... :-[]

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

[CW]

Muslim? Buddhist?

[mac davis]

I notice that the man said a "good picker" can make $20 an hour..

In my experience, the pay is ZERO $ an hour and you get paid based on how many boxes you fill..

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

[mac davis]

I think that there were 2 factors... One was that you had more family farms then, and the whole family worked.. as opposed to now when most kids are looking for ways to get into careers other than farming.. Also, I'm not sure when the "bracero" (SP) program started, but that was a big push of foreign pickers every season..

I'd also guess that borders were a lot looser and folks worked wherever the work was..

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

[mac davis]

I believe in a global economy... Can't find a factory job making tools? Get a job selling, repairing, advertising, or using them.. I remember folks used to give me shit for driving a Japanese truck instead of "buying American".. I use to tell them that besides the fact that Ford is a major player in Madza, I bought the truck from an American dealership... I'd also assume that it was worked on, transported, resold, etc. by American companies with American employees...

So, now I drive a Dodge truck that was made in the USA... Of course, it was assembled in Mexico and Dodge is owned by a German company, but it's "Made in USA"

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

[Mark & Juanita]

Get back to me with the stats on the number of muslims and buddhists coming into the country to pick crops (legally or illegally). Then we can discuss your snipe.

[Mark & Juanita]

About the only one that you could count would be her stint at the Rose Law firm and there is some question that even that was more of a tie-in to Bill to curry favor while he was governor of Arkansas (White Water, cattle futures, etc).

[Mark & Juanita]

Even back in the 40's when my mother was home on the farm, the whole family worked, but my granddad did hire migrant workers at the peaks of the season (chopping cotton and picking cotton). There were people who followed the harvest or other crop seasons from Texas on north throughout the year. From what I understand however, they were all American citizens or here legally.

Even back then there were issues with illegals; I know my granddad would never knowingly hire anyone who was illegal. But back then,there were citizens who would also do the work

[dpb]

mac davis wrote: ...

"was" is the correct tense (at the moment, anyway, who knows what's next)...

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[Doug Miller]

Can't take it, when somebody points out you've been posting nonsense, eh? Crybaby.