Do you care where your tools are manufactured?

[Doug Miller]

You're arguing with a crybaby. He's going to put you in the bozo bin, too, if you're not careful.

[Doug Miller]

No, he didn't. This is what he said: Message-ID: "A (Mexican) apple picker can easily make $20.00 an hour. "

Of course. But my point is that there is _no_way_ that apples are going to cost anywhere near fifteen dollars apiece anytime in the foreseeable future, no matter _who_ picks them. That's just another scare story put forward by the apologists for illegal immigration. The math just doesn't add up.

[mac davis]

I can tell you from experience that apples won't get that expensive... it would have worse consequences..

I central California they solved the labor problem by plowing over the orchards and building houses.. What do they do to make up for the loss of crops? They import fruit and vegetables from Mexico..

mac

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[mac davis]

I recently read a book, ( "A Painted House" by John Grisham),about cotton growers in Arkansas during the 50's and the family did most of the farming but needed Lots of help picking... A lot of the book revolves around conflicts between the 2 sources of hired seasonal pickers.. "hill people" that came down once a year in large family groups and "Mexicans" that were trucked in from Mexico..

Some things never change?

mac

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[Robatoy]

You don't say.......................................

[CW]

[Doug Miller]

Still waiting for your explanation of how the apples wind up costing $15 apiece...

[Mark & Juanita]

Mom's family was in North Texas. From what she has said, there were two distinct groups, the migrant Mexican workers and blacks. I don't recall her mentioning any conflicts regarding that. The migrants pretty much moved themselves from job to job (they weren't "trucked" in). Mom's family worked alongside the hired people, the whole idea was to get things done quickly.

[Rod & Betty Jo]

As my daughter did for several years.....as an employee of a temp service as I suspect most are....no vehical deduction allowed....Rod

[Rod & Betty Jo]

Even worse my Dad had a small Raspberry field....10-20 seasonal pickers plus us kids....I was both a "rich" owners kid and the top picker. When the Gov. decided that kids under 12 could no longer pick we had to hide the families with ten year olds from prying eyes......Over the 40 years he had the patch he had many a mom teach her kids what work and a honest days pay was all about.......Sadly that era is mostly gone as kids aren't allowed to work. The societal change from most Mom's raising kids to most working (rising house payments) seriously dried up the urban labor pool as well. Rod

[Digger]

Chuckle, and now the outrage of Rudy's infidelity while he was mayor and the police coverup! Good ole Bill was getting his in the same house he lived in while the secret service (appropriate name huh) guarded the door. And the politician TERM LIMITS in congress!!!

BTW on topic, been married to my favorite pal for 23 years and she is still the greatest! (no need for security in our house except S&W) Kenneth

[Digger]

WELL SAID! We deserve what we get. Case in point Teddy (dunk 'em and leave 'em) Kennedy. And people attack candidates for minor infractions. In this country you can buy away manslaughter with enough money! Kenneth

[John Martin]

Don't know about 40 years ago, but I did pick apples one fall about 35 years ago. Close enough?

It was all a game of politics.

Orchard was in northern Westchester County, New York. The growers wanted to bring in the Jamaicans, which they did every year. Before the state would let them in, though, they sent around a number of people on the unemployment rolls. They were paid at so much per box or minimum wage - whichever came to more. Even though we started on RI Greenings - which are very large cooking apples and were easy picking on very small trees - they were very slow and none of them were in the box rate bracket. Most of them didn't last more than the first day, none lasted more than several days. They all came up with reasons why they could not continue. Some were truly not fit for the work, but most of the reasons were bullshit.

Finally the state relented and allowed the growers to bring in the Jamaicans. Those guys were fast. I was well above minimum wage, but not at their level. I considered it a great day when I could pick 2/3 of what a Jamaican did. Mid-way through the season, I was the only non-Jamaican there.

Great bunch of guys. I'll never forget one Friday, though. From the next tree, one of the guys yelled out to me "Hey, come out with us tonight. We're gonna have some drinks, get some c*ck". Whoa. I don't know about that. Don't want to hurt any feelings, but.... One of them started to laugh and explained "Oh, that's what we call p*ssy". Oh.

So. One of the richest counties in the country, and there weren't enough locals to get the crop in. There would be more in a poorer area, but probably not enough. CW is right.

But he's also wrong. It could be done. Because the real answer is for our government to grow a set of balls and require that those on welfare and unemployment take jobs like those, or not get their "entitlements". Work or go hungry.

There would still be areas in farm country when a big crop would require outside help. So, bring people in from the cities. Bring back the CCC if we have to. Unfortunately, I don't think our politicians - or most of us - are willing to be tough enough to do it.

John Martin

[Doug Miller]

In article , John Martin wrote: [snip]

Of course the price of apples, pears, and most other agricultural products would rise, without cheap illegal labor to pick them. But ChronicWhiner's claim that apples would go up to fifteen dollars apiece, and pears eighteen, is just nuts. No relationship to reality at all.

Bingo!

You are. I am. There's a start.

[Just Wondering]

If that's true, then the answer isn't turning a blind eye to illegal aliens, it's changing welfare to workfare.

[Just Wondering]

That's not slave labor, it's parents realizing and taking advantage of a great opportunity to instill a work ethic in their children. Something we could use a little more of nowadays.

[dpb]

It's certainly true it's a part of it; not all. Nothing is so simplistic. It doesn't help that we have labor laws that make it almost impossible to hire teenagers for summer labor for farm work any more.

I don't argue the general idea of "work for pay", but realistically what do you think the chances are of accomplishing that?

Again, I'm not saying I like the status quo, simply that there is a need that the "send 'em back" crowd doesn't want to recognize. That there should be legitimate ways is a given imo but as I've noted elsewhere, neither political party wants a solution very much because it's too convenient as a campaign weapon against the other and each have very competing vested interests in how they wish to see it resolved in (they think at least) their favor.

[dpb]

Depends on whether were the parent or the child... :)

But, seriously, the current labor laws make it almost impossible for us to hire summer labor as high school kids for much farm labor any more. :(

[J. Clarke]

What I'd like to see is a system where people on Welfare get rewarded to work. On the current system if you get a minimum-wage job then you lose more in benefits than you make in wages, so why bother?

Workfare was tried--it was called "WPA" and "CCC" and now it's called "Pork Barrel Politics".

[mac davis]

I don't think that they pay slaves, though... My guess is that those quarters added up to a pretty good amount for a kid at that time..

mac

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