dimensioned lumber

[dadiOH]

Maybe 2x4s were once actually 2" x 4", don't know, best I remember is 1

5/8" x 3 5/8". They were that way for many years, then went down to 1 1/2" x 3 1/2". That's OK, no problem but - apparently - pressure treated 2x4s are still 1 5/8" x 3 5/8". At least the ones I just bought and chopped down to size yesterday are (I'm making some cabinet plinths).

Now, 1/8" isn't all that much but it's enough to screw up my plans for the rest of the cabinets which means I either have to revise the plans or skinny down the PT. I'll do the latter but I sure wish they would decide what size 2x4s should be, PT or not.

I guess I should ask a question, not just rant, so I will: Is there some reason PT 2x4s are bigger?

[Leon]

They are full of water. They will likely be 1.5 x 3.5 after they dry out, they will be a lot lighter weight too.

This is one of the reasons that I try to buy lumber that is kiln dried after being PT when stability in desirable and that is typically more expensive.

[Greg Guarino]

For the further education of a novice, could you explain what sort of cabinets you are making that require 2x4s and why you have chosen pressure treated? One more thing: When you "skinny them down", won't you be atomizing a great deal of allegedly poisonous stuff into the air?

Standard disclaimers about my overall ignorance apply. :)

[jloomis]

Yes, moisture. You will find dry ones measure more in the range of 1.5 x 3.5 but that is not a guarantee either.

I have found 2x4 here that are actually 2 1/4 by 4 plus....of course those are old millings. It is very difficult when repairing a redwood deck, and doing in line repairs if the 2x6 are 1.5 x 5.5 and the purchased repair is 1 5/8 x 5 5/8 Of course one can rip, although as they dry they shrink.....

I have received deliveries with 2 different millings in the single delivery.... And had to sort out the different size as to not affect the deck spacing.... john

Maybe 2x4s were once actually 2" x 4", don't know, best I remember is 1

5/8" x 3 5/8". They were that way for many years, then went down to 1 1/2" x 3 1/2". That's OK, no problem but - apparently - pressure treated 2x4s are still 1 5/8" x 3 5/8". At least the ones I just bought and chopped down to size yesterday are (I'm making some cabinet plinths).

Now, 1/8" isn't all that much but it's enough to screw up my plans for the rest of the cabinets which means I either have to revise the plans or skinny down the PT. I'll do the latter but I sure wish they would decide what size 2x4s should be, PT or not.

I guess I should ask a question, not just rant, so I will: Is there some reason PT 2x4s are bigger?

[Greg Guarino]

And another: How "deep" does the pressure treating go? If you need the critter-resistance of PT lumber, won't you be reducing it, on two sides of each board?

[Greg Guarino]

Ugh. I see now that I missed the word "plinths". I assume these will rest on a moist floor. But I'm still interested in the rest, if you wouldn't mind.

[Doug Miller]

"dadiOH" wrote in news:mb7qeu$dds$ [e-mail]:

2x4 is the rough-sawn size. Our previous house was a 1928 farmhouse framed with rough-sawn lumber: the wall studs were actually 2 inches by 4 inches, floor joists a full 2x8, etc.

The main advantage of dressing rough-sawn framing lumber is to provide consistent dimensions: the actual size of the rough-sawn material varied +/- about 1/8".

[dadiOH]

These are bathroom vanities. They - like most cabinets - have toe kicks; i.e., an indentation at the bottom to accomodate one's toes when one stands at the cabinet.

There are two ways I know of to make a toe kick...

1. Notch out the front of the cabinet sides
2. Make the cabinet sides shorter and set them - attached to the bottoms - on a "plinth". A plinth is just a raised, open box, sized to provide the toe kick when the cabinet boxes are on them. The advantage of using plinths is twofold: 1) the cabinet sides don't have to be notched (a PITA) and 2), it is far easier to level a plinth, should the need arise, than a cabinet.

I make them from 2x4s, both PT and white wood. The PT pieces are vertical and screwed to the concrete floor and/or the wall sole plate, hence the PT. I put another set of WW 2x4s horizontally on top of and nailed to the PT ones; that normally gives me 5" from slab to the underside of the cabinet bottom. When I add the Saltillo tile floor, I'll have 4 - 41/4" of toe kick height. The plinth gets pieces of 1/4" cement board nailed to it, Saltillo tile mop boards on that.

Well yeah. Whatever escapes my dust collector will be visited on humanity. In this case, "humanity" is me and - since I'll be 82 this summer - I don't much care.

Same thing happened when I cut the 96" 2x4s into pieces.

[dadiOH]

See my first response. The floor isn't "moist" but it IS concrete. Which means that some dampness will penetrate it from the ground upon which it sits.

Now, plain old white wood would likely be entirely satisfactory, especially given the length of time I am likely to be in this house, but I elected to use the best available to me. If I had a roll of tar paper handy I probably would have used all WW on a layer of it.

Skinnying it down just involves ripping off 1/8 from the 3 5/8 dimension. That edge won't be on the floor but would still be fine even if it were.

[-MIKE-]

2x4 finished dimensions have changed over the years. IIRC the current 1.5x3.5 size has been the standard since the late 60s.

[John McCoy]

Greg Guarino wrote in news:mb7s82$iaf$ [e-mail]:

Somewhere I have read that it's less than 1/2 an inch.

BTW, on the subject of dimensional lumber variations, the one that annoys the hell out of me is the recent appearance of short 2x4s. I presume the idea is to save having to cut the ends off when framing an 8' wall, but Home Despot/Lowes rarely clearly mark the bin with the short ones, and it's too easy to pick them up by mistake.

John

[HerHusband]

I assume you are going to paint this, as pressure treated probably won't stain or finish well?

Have you considered using PVC or composite lumber? It costs more, but it doesn't sound like you'll need much of it. You can cut and shape it just like wood, but it won't rot.

I have machined composite deck boards from the home center to use as outdoor trim and other projects. It can take a few extra coats of paint to cover up, but otherwise it holds up very well.

Anthony Watson

[Puckdropper]

John McCoy wrote in news:XnsA43B7F1636442pogosupernews@213.239.209.88:

Most the places I've noticed sell those as "stud length" 2x4s, and charge a little more for them. It might be worth speaking to a manager about keeping those pieces separate.

Puckdropper

[-MIKE-]

As someone else stated, there are different ratings. They make above ground, ground contact, and even water submerged treated lumber. The technique of treating has changed over the years as with any technology. IIRC, with some ratings, the treatment goes all the way through.

[Larry Blanchard]

I put some heavy plastic drop cloth on the floor, sized a couple of inches larger than the cabinets. Put the cabinets in place and stapled the overhang of the drop cloth to the edge of the 2x4s.

[Larry Blanchard]

Not sure about the dating, but I seem to remember 1.75 x 3.75 way back when. Of course that may have been recycled or old stock or a faulty memory. Anyone else remember that size?

[John Grossbohlin]

"Studs" have been available locally here for at least 40 years... I've noticed the word "stud" printed on them with the grade stamp too... don't recall seeing that on 2x4x8s.

I often bring a tape measure with me when buying lumber and sheet goods as customers often rearrange materials while picking. As such, even if the staff had it right to begin with there is no guarantee it's right when I get there... plumbing and electrical departments are the worst for that!

John

[-MIKE-]

I read something a while back about the history of dimensional lumber. It kept decreasing in size every so often, so your recollection is probably accurate. You have to keep in mind, too, that these giant lumber yard/home stores in every town and every major interstate interchange is a very modern phenomenon.

Even in the 70s it was much easier people in some parts of the country to get their lumber straight from a sawyer. There are many homes built in the early 70s with 2x4s that are very close to nominal size.

[Swingman]

Thank gawd for 92-5/8", pre-cut "studs"...

Saves on labor, and material, in both double top plate framing, and putting up drywall.

Caveat Emptor always applies to buying dimensioned lumber, IOW, check your dimensions, particularly of the first one on your cart, then make sure the others line up.

Easy. ;)

[Leon]

Don't confuse common length 2x4's, 6'8'10'12' etc with "Studs". Studs are shy of 8' to compensate for the sole/bottom plate, top plates, and less the ceiling sheet rock so that wall sheetrock will cover the wall. This is not a new thing, they have been around for decades. I will say however that probably more often than not some shopper has loaded up a cart of studs, found the 8' 2x's and mixed the studs in with the rest. Typically all you have to do is steer clear of the bright colored studs or those marked on their sides or label with "stud", if you want 8'