Buying USA?

[Edwin Pawlowski]

And many of the "foreign" makes have design, manufacturing, and assembly facilities in the US. Some cars (maybe all?) list the percentage of parts made in the US.

[Chris Friesen]

This isn't the whole picture though.

Consider something like the Mazda3/Ford Focus C-Max/Volvo S40/V50.

This is a joint venture where the cars were designed jointly and share

40% of the parts, the Focus will be built in Germany, the Volvos in Belgium and the Mazda 3 in Japan.

Ford contributed metallurgy techniques and suspension tuning, Mazda contributed engineering prowess and "zoom-zoom", and Volvo contributed towards the safety aspects.

Do any of these vehicles count as "American"?

Chris

[Leon]

Umm you do realize that the majority of the money spent on Chinese products stays in the country that sells to the end user. There are a lot of American middlemen and stores that make money off the sale. We as consumers are not buying direct from China. And if you think trading with China is scary, how about the Oil that we buy. We are actually at war with that region right now. Thank the politicians that sell us out every day. Until most Americans are willing to pay too much for a product it is likely that more manufacturing will go to other countries. The consumer is not to blame as he is applying what he has learned, getting the most for his money. The American laborer needs to learn now how to compete and realize that most anyone can do his quality of work with out government intervention.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

I surely don't know hte answer and we may not for another 20, 30, or 40 years. I don't see how our economy can survive with little more than casino gambling and nursing homes.

We used to be able to sell technology, but other countries are catching up or exceeding us in some areas. Medical care used to be a lock on the local market, but now expensive elective surgery is being done in India.

[Charles Self]

Stick a shot up. I shoot old cars for part of my living, and find them fascinating, though recently I've been working a little further back (most recent a '58 Impala, oldest a '34 SS1 Jag).

[FunkySpaceCowboy]

As I general rule I try to avoid buying from mainland China. Generally the quality is as low or as high as the price when it comes to Chinese imports. On the high end of price the quality of Chinese imports is comparable with similarily priced items made in the West. The big difference is at the low end, their low end price goes a lot lower than anyone else and there tends to be lower level floor to just how piss-poor the quality can get that even the cheapest Chinese imports can't fall below. Like the $20 vise I just bought: the jaws don't close parralell(sp) and the pop up dog is a joke but the jaws line up when it's closed and serves my immediate needs and I'll retire within a year I'm sure.

Anyway though quality issues aside I don't like sending money over there because of more political reasons. I don't like the human rights record of the chinese government, I don't like their illegal occupation of Tibet, their attitude towards Taiwan and I also view them as a future threat as great or greater than the USSR was at the height of the Cold War. than So I specifically avoid Chinese imports whenever possible.

For imports in general I have no issues buying non-US goods. I admit to a slight bias towards US and Canadian goods, followed by European and then any Western-style democracy after that, for my imports. So if there's an Indian made product that meets my needs (functional and financial) I'll buy it without loosing sleep.

Lee Valley is a Canadian company. They flag US and Canadian items online and in their print catalog and they do mention the source in their write-ups for a lot of other items. They have a lot of NA and Old World imports as well as Japanese and S. Korean and a few Chinese, which aren't listed as such but it's a safe bet that anything just labeled "imported" is Chinese.

I think of it as more of a security issue than anything else. Despite increased economic freedoms over there the state still has a dirty little finger in most business ventures, including (or especially) those involving western companies setting up plants over there. So there are issues of tech transfer to Chinese government and of directly financing a potentially hostile regime by buying widgets from them. While I'm not directly boycotting Chinese goods I'm willing to put extra time and money into buying goods from elsewhere.

Cheers,

Josh

[evodawg]

Cool I grew up around, lets see my dad had XK120 and a XK140 the replica that won le mans, I think it was a 55 not sure. All I knew was it was all aluminum body and it had a sticker on the walnut dash that said so. He also had a couple of XKE's 1966 4.2 coupe and my mom had the roaster all in British Racing Green. I kinda went the other way with the muscle cars, probably a rebellion thing. But I did love driving them in the back country roads of NJ. When he got older and more successful he ended up with XJ6 for luxury and a Ferrari 350gt for raising hell.

[Scott Lurndal]

They just ordered a bunch (160) of A-320's as well. That puts airbus up by a couple of ten's on Boeing this year in china (but I think world-wide, boeing's order book increased more this year than Airbus); looks like b. will sell a record number of 777's this year, most of them to south{east|west} asia.

[jo4hn]

[snip]

And take a look at who owns parts of our $8 trillion deficit (increasing at $.5 trillion per year). Lots of Asian countries (including the PRC at something like $800 billion, plus Japan, Singapore, others) and mid-eastern countries (try Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc.) All that is necessary to tank our economy is for one of these guys to start unloading a bit of that debt at bargain prices. Possible? Absolutely. Probable? I don't know but it's enough to make my sphincter clench up. gloom, jo4hn

[Dave Jackson]

[MB]

Unfortunately the chinese government holds the yuan to dollar exchange rate at a artificially low rate to keep the price of chinese good low, and the price of american good high. Unless this exchange rate is allowed to "float", the cash will continue to move to china. The exchange rate was a big part of Bush's recent trip to china.

And don't think that the average chinese worker is the big beneficiary, the government controls the economy and reaps the biggest rewards. How else could the chinese government afford to buy Conoco oil.

[LRod]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Plop, Wrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Reel 'em in.

[Larry Jaques]

On 6 Dec 2005 08:10:17 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, "Never Enough Money" quickly quoth:

You misspelled "American's Unions have ratcheted up wages...", Nem.

-- The Smart Person learns from his mistakes. The Wise Person learns from the mistakes of others. And then there are all the rest of us...

-----------------------------------------------------

-- Wisearse Website Design

[WD]

In the nineties Clinton's trade negotiator, Mickey Kantor bashed the Japanese for cheap Japanese imports. The Japanese and South Korea start building plants in the USA and today, the Big two are selling fewer cars and even the ailing Chrysler recovers under Mercedes Benz. We bashed the Chinese today and wondered what installs for us in the near future.

.

[Greg G]

At the risk of repeating comments and opinion I have expressed since

1995, you can bet that a portion of the money pouring into mainland China IS being used for military buildup and engineering. And for the acquisition of financial power as well. Buying up stumbling American companies, with their names and reputations is de rigueur for most foreign investors.

And as recently as, oh... say... Bush's visit last month, they have openly declared that an autonomous Taiwan is currently being "tolerated" by the current PRC government - barring a complete make-over of the current government, it's only a matter of time before an attempt to "re-integrate" Taiwan is made.

The Chinese name for the region is Zhongguo, which roughly translates from Mandarin into "Center Country", and represents their view that China stands at the center of that society's known world, surrounded by menial tributary states.

Lest you perceive this as a slam against the Chinese people, it's not. They are no different than the population of any nation - they want to eat, be sheltered, and be free to live out their lives peacefully.

But China is a cesspool of pollution, oppression, and exploitation. People argue that China will ultimately buy products from the US, but it isn't likely. The government promotes internal policies that promote the development of competing technologies, even if, and especially for, for internal use. DVD formats, computer software are two examples. As their abilities and capabilities evolve, they will be producing their own cars, their own planes and their own military weapons. Besides, what the hell do we make anymore? The only thing China wants from the US is money - as much as possible. When they do buy technology, it is to reverse engineer and copy. They are the Apprentice who steals your tools and your customers. China does not want to participate in a world economy, they want to build an empire. "Patience, grasshopper. We've been around 8000 years, and can wait a few more..." Fraught by centuries of vacillating Warlord and Imperialist rule, civil war and oppression, China isn't likely to turn over a new leaf so easily. Those that truly believe we aren't holding a tiger by the tail are fools, and those that deny it are avaricious liars - IMHO.

There are those that argue that, in the long run, it doesn't matter what the origin of a product: "Products are imported and sold, with the majority of the profit being retained in the U.S." The _rest_ of the sentence should include " - by the moneychangers." The oft decried many-headed hydra of banking and money hoarders.

A pair of jeans manufactured in the USA cost $12.00 in 1995. They were constructed of US made fabric and YKK zippers from Macon, Ga. In 1998, the cost was $12.95 and they were imported from China. The fabric, the zippers, and the seamster's labor. What's the difference, you ask? The US goods are still going strong, and the newer Chinese replacements have already fallen apart. This scenario is realized every single day of my life. It is false economy. But...

The big-box retailer is now paying $3.20 per pair, instead of $6.85. Did they give their employees pay raises or heath care coverage with the added income? Hardly...

Do you honestly believe that monolithic corporations, now or ever, pay their employees more, or treat them better, simply because they are making more money on imported products? Hardly - in fact, quite the opposite case can be made. As demonstrated by the incompetence demonstrated by the employee involved in the Wal-Mart/GAF debacle.

Wait, I can hear you now: "He was an exception, an aberration. Most managers are polite, competent, and interested in good public relations." If you think this is true, I'd _really_ like to know what universe you're living in.

Maybe if that mgr made more than $22,000 a year for a 10 hour a day,

6 day week job, he might adjust his attitude. Instead of constantly thinking about some other pipe-dream job where he actually makes enough money to feed and cloth the kids, pay taxes, pay for home heat and the obligatory automobile - with it's additional rising costs of fuel and insurance, tags, taxes, and maintenance - he might actually concentrate on job performance. Those jobs are whipping posts (with apologies to the Allman Brothers). Restaurants, retail, hotel management - hmm... all jobs in the Service Industry - our big hope for the economic future. Sure there are exceptions, those primarily being exemplified by businesses that cater to the rich, but in general, Service Economy jobs suck - plain and simple.

Generally, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Probably, and additionally, they mark the country of origin in their catalog. That is one reason I shop there. I want to make my own choices as to what products I purchase and where they originate.

For me, it's not as much a question of whether a product is imported or not as it is one that begs to differentiate between whether a product was produced by a civilized country that occupies a responsible place at the table of world order. Does it provide it's citizens a just and prosperous life, and do they compete with other nations on a level playing field. China fails both of those criteria.

Uhh... it's been going on for at least a decade - you've just noticed?

ZZZZzzzzzzzz,,, click. Tick, tick, tick...

FWIW, JMHO, etc.

Greg G.

[Bruce Barnett]

They may buy products from the US, but I don't expect them to be big importers of finished gooods.

China is one of the companies that ignores patent laws. If they can make a cheaper product that is an exact copy of a US product they will do so.

The number 1 car in China is a copy of a GM car that is so accurate a clone, it has the same bugs.

The labor is going overseas. Our technology is going overseas as well. Our colleges are filled with students from other countries who take our technology and use it in their countries.

US is turning into a country that provides services, and raw materials, and not primarily a country exporting finished goods.

And most of the services we provide are available elsewhere for a cheaper price.

We still have strength in the entertainment business, but companies like Sony are trying to increase share there as well. Sony is not doing well. The WSJ was talking about the CEO being ousted because their last big hit movie was "Hitch," while they have mega-blockbusters that flopped. And now this scandal with the Sony Virus on the music CD's.

But the edge the US has in the global market is not that great. College graduates are having a hard time finding jobs. I'm concerned for the future of the US youth.

[Leon]

Well I have to disagree back. ;~) The consumer cares nothing about profit. Profit is a monitary term that business cares about. If the consumer was getting such a raw deal the trend of his purchases would turn back to another source. Just because an expensive item lasts longer does not mean that this is a good purchase for the consumer. The consumer is more concerned with how a product may benefit him which may in some cases lead to more profit down the road if the product is bought for business purposes.

The laboror learning how to compete and earn a reasonable wage for what he does is by far more doable than trying to convence the customer to pay 4 times the price for the same or less quality.

I totally agree, and yet the American businesses are loosing their share of the production market. They need to learn to compete. There is plenty of business out there to be had.

[Steve Peterson]

You are looking at too small a slice of the pie. International trade is here to stay, and a huge amount of the US economy benefits. If we walled off out economy, and only allowed selling and buying of items with 100% domestic content, the following crash would dwarf the great depression. So get over it.

No doubt you will want to research this so you can move on from opinionated to informed. A good starting point is:

I used to assign my students, when they had to miss a lab and there was not an opportunity for a make-up, to take a product they use, like shampoo, and look at the list of ingredients and look them up to see what the real chemical compound is, and what function it performs in the product. I don't think anyone ever deliberately missed lab so they could do the product lookup, but they enjoyed the task and almost always did a good job. You can do the equivalent. Pick a product you use, preferably something complex, like your audio system. Research what it is made of and how it is distributed, sold and serviced. What would you have left if we withdrew from international trade?

Have fun. Grading will be pass/fail.

Steve

[Cyrille de Brébisson]

hello,

Let me disagree with that, the consumer is to blame, because he knows that by going for the short term profit, he is jeopardizing his long term future, but he does not care. BTW, this is a symptom of psychopath!

the problem is not as much that the American laborer needs to learn how to compete, but that the American citizen need to quadruple at least what he pays for stuff (relative to income), and therefore greatly reducing his lifestyle, and this is hard to do...

BTW, I was reading last week that if everyone on earth was consuming like the average American, it would take 5.8 earth to support mankind.

regards, cyrille

[Cyrille de Brébisson]

hello,

remember, the quality is low because the US company who request, and specify the goods only care about pricing and not quality. and they do that because the customer care more about price than quality... it's customer driven, and it is that way because, we, as customer WANT MORE!!!

a lot of that money is then re-invested in the US (in stock, and most noticeably in government bonds and real estate), which is in fact a buy out of Americas future. China holds your social security check :-) what this means is that by buying so much Chinese good, you sell to china the land you reside in, it's wealth, and your children's.

regards, cyrille