Bosch Reaxx Table Saw

[Leon]

On 9/20/2015 5:41 AM, J. Clarke wrote: Snip

Does anyone know for a fact know what Gass asked for in license fees?

Considering the fact that when other brand vehicles offered anti lock brakes that this option was offered mostly on the top of the line vehicles and at a pretty premium additional cost, there was plenty of wiggle room. And because it was an option the full expense was probably passed on directly the customer, maybe it also added to the cost of the base vehicle whether it as included or not.

There are reports that Gass wanted too much for licensing but for an industry that only now is beginning to not go with status quo and offer this technology I would be willing to bet that they rejected Gass's offer more to keep him from proceeding and the good old boys club could continue to do what it was doing, turning out the same old technology that we had come to expect. Any deal may have qualified as too expensive. Letting competition in and watering down the field is too expensive.

It was only after Gass produced his saw and introduced his safety features, including the use of a riving knife, that the competition started to improve their products as far as user safety is concerned.

As what appears to have happened, not taking Gass's license deal, has probably been more costly. Delta is hardly in the business any more and not by the same people that owned them 10`15 years ago. Powermatic is still in business but owned by another company, the same as the one that owns Jet and a lot of Powermatic and Jet machines for a long time simply had different paint and stickers. I believe most American brands have had to restructure or sell to remain in the market. While paying Gass for his license may have been very costly and may have sunk some companies it was a mistake and a lesson on short sightedness. It would have been to Gass's advantage for his competition to remain viable so that he could profit from his licenses and maybe not even produce a saw. If your customers/license holders, are not selling saws, your are not selling licenses. I understood the licenses were offered as, per unit, sold with the technology.

Fortunately the PM 2000 and their bandsaws appear to be unique, possibly some others. And fortunately I believe the quality has not suffered and most likely why they continue to probably be the strongest competition to SawStop. But then they, IIRC, were the one of the first, if not the first, American company to offer the riving knife. From what I have read SawStop has take more than the lions share of the market with their own saw.

[John McCoy]

"J. Clarke" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I don't think I'd describe the GT40 as "brute force" and certainly not "awfulness". Awesomeness, maybe.

What's interesting there is that, having been given a blank check by Henry Ford, his engineers took advantage to not only beat Ferrari at Le Mans, but also to fund Meyer-Drake to build an Indy engine (later sold to AJ and known as the Foyt-Ford); to fund Holman-Moody in NASCAR; and to fund Cosworth to build the DFV that dominated F1 for so long.

John

[J. Clarke]

Ferrari won with small displacement and lots of cylinders. Henry just stuck a NASCAR 427 in the thing,.

As for NASCAR, all the automakers at the time backed NASCAR teams.

[John McCoy]

"J. Clarke" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

That's actually a condemnation of Ferrari's engineering. For a long endurance race, a large, low-revving engine is more likely to be durable. Using the largest engine the rules allowed was intelligent engineering. The same idea was used by Jaguar many years later, when they used a turbo V6 for the short races, and the big V12 for Le Mans.

Your understanding of NASCAR history is somewhat lacking.

John

[J. Clarke]

Perhaps. Living memory is often at variance with book learning.

[J. Clarke]

I don't know who he is and I don't care who he is and quite honestly I neither know nor care who you are either.

[John McCoy]

"J. Clarke" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Yeah, memory is a tricky thing. I'm guessing you're thinking NASCAR of the 70's more than the 60's.

After the 1955 Le Mans disaster, all the automakers agreed to get out of racing. All of them then pretty quickly started supporting teams under the table, but for several years there was no official backing of NASCAR teams. Then in the early

60's Plymouth started backing Petty, and as noted upthread, Ford started funding Holman-Moody. GM stayed out of official involvement in NASCAR until 1970.

John

[J. Clarke]

You're probably right. I would have been around 11 when Ford first won LeMans.

[Jack]

I like this idea, unlikely as it is. I would rather cut my arm off than buy anything from that Sawstop asshole.

If Bosch wins, my next saw will be a Bosch. Chances are good I'll be well over 100 years old before I wear out my current saws that depend solely on user for safety.

If I ever cut myself, which gets more likely as I age, I'll simply have to sue myself...

[Leon]

Well Jack, you are of the persuasion that makes emotional decisions rather than rational, I strongly suspected that.

Not saying that there is anything wrong with that but leaving emotion out of the decision process typically makes for better decision making. And that is often hard to do.

When I read your comments, I'll try to remember that.

[Jack]

Everyone one has emotions. In this case, you can call it emotions, I'll call it principles. That "Sawstop asshole" tried to get the government to require every saw manufacturer to license his crap. That to me is an underhanded way to make a buck, not surprising for a lawyer.

My emotions tell me the first one to cut off a finger and sue Sawstop for every penny they have would make my day.

My principles tell me not to support an asshole, and, after almost 60 years of safely using saws w/o his crap hanging on it I can probably live without it. Others may be better off with it, that's fine by me.

Aside from that, if Bosch has a way to do the same thing w/o ruining your blade, not to mention a $100 mechanism you need to buy from Goss, then I would buy that tech in my next saw, which will not likely happen until I'm well into my 100's.

[Leon]

On 9/24/2015 8:52 AM, Jack wrote:

Absolutely but if used to make decisions the result is a 50/50 chance that it is not a good one.

In this case, you can call it emotions, I'll call it principles. I'll call it emotions. You are basing a decision on a product, not by the product, but by your feelings towards the inventor. And that's ok if you feel better making decisions that way. But for some one that might value your opinion on a product yours will not be based on fact if you let your emotions stand in the way of an honest evaluation of the product. It is important that I and others understand that.

That "Sawstop asshole" tried to get the government

Welcome to the American way. At least he went about that in a legal way and in a way that was perfectly with in his rights.

I think you are way too invested in wanting revenge for something that might have happened in the past but did not happen. While I understand your feelings towards Gass, it is unlikely that his insurance would not cover the loss and IIRC there are limitations to this type settlement. Again emotions interfering logical judgement with what is likely to really happen, if it happened. At least eight years in production and I don't think there has been a report of even a cut. It is likely that information would come up in a trial and the jury would probably favor the defendant rather than sacrifice ending a great safety feature on a good tool, if they took every penny.

Your emotions have lead you to believe that Gass is an asshole. Have you met him? He might be a nice guy, not an ass hole. He did not do any thing wrong, that we know of, other than pursue promoting his product in a way that you apparently do not agree with. Ignorance is bliss. There is no telling how many products you use that have come to reality that affect you every day that yu don't know any thing about.

Ok, again with the emotional exaggerations. I know the SS brake is under $70. for the single blade brake and under $90 for the dado brake. IIRC the Bosch tripping insert is approximately $80. But it is true that it can be used two times so the effect cost would be about half of what either SS brake costs. See, I'm using facts here so the it is easier to form a valid decision. Emotions do not care about facts of what the real decision process should be considering. And the assumption of the blade being destroyed is just that, an assumption. I have seen many pictures and demonstrations of a brake stopping a blade. Never have I seen a destroyed blade. I understand that it is not unusual for a blade to be resharpened, re-flattened, or repaired. IMHO the blade is more likely to need to be re-flattened than anything else. The brake is aluminum. I would not care to say how many times I have cut into my aluminum miter fence with not damage to the blade. And direct power is immediately disconnected from the blade as it droops down below the table surface so the brake does not have to harness the energy of the motor too. Now, would "I" have a blade repaired and reuse it? that has not happened yet and I don't have enough information to make that decision right now. If I were letting my emotions enter into that decision process I might cut my nose off to spite my face to bolster my thoughts on the whole subject.

[Electric Comet]

the amount of time you spend defending your tool purchases/choices is astonishing you do know that no one really cares

but i think you should ask the respective manufacturers for some free stuff

t-shirts, blades, spare parts, etc.

[Leon]

Not really defending, that is unnecessary. I'm just pointing out facts.

Perhaps you do not but I get questioned about the Festool products quite often. So perhaps you are jumping to conclusions with out facts.

I'm not a mooch.

[Leon]

70 responses by others at least 3 by you.

[Electric Comet]

you have that thing that is opposite of buyer remorse forget what it is called

i never get asked about festool products i do not even know what festool means

a long slow jump of years reading internet discussions maybe if i said that people barely care it would be easier to accept

get on their payroll then if you have not already why go on and on for free when you can receive remunerations

[Electric Comet]

discussion is good but still no one really cares that is just human nature

reading and discussing is one thing caring is another because that involves taking things to heart

i like reading about your tools but i do not care beyond that

if i win a festool i will post here and people will read it for whatever reason but they will not care and it will have zero impact on their life

_

[Leon]

Happiness from a smart decision made from using facts.

No doubt considering your next statement.

So you do know that Festool has products based on your comment above but don't know what it means. Do you know that Makita, Porter Cable, Fein, Bosch, Powermatic, etc. mean?

If I read a comment and am asked a question I normally respond. Just like I am responding to you.

Because I make money using their products. I don't want to work for Festool right now. I have been retired from the rat race for 20+ years.

[Leon]

Oh, ok, that is sensible. FWIW there are some here that do buy products based on my reviews.

[Baxter]

Leon wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Actually a resonable factor in one's decision. Environment, source, impact on others, etc are all important factors in any decision. Certainly reasonable to boycott a product based on an unethical manufacturer.