- I've a 2002 Suburban I bought as a retirement gift to myself 16 months
ago and love it, 11k miles so far. The jury is out on how long it'll
last when we start travelling the US though.
- I've a 96 Saturn SL2, can't complain about it either. 35mpg road, 29
in town & has 65k miles. Great car so far - wife loves it.
- I've a 92 Ford 4x4 Supercab (300cid & 5spd OD trans), engine is pretty
good but the rest of it is shit. WW switch is AFU and certainly doesn't
need a dozen variable speeds. Ign switch won't center. Mirrors both
broke the housings instead of laying into the side of the door when I
needed them to. Been thru 1 clutch and 2 throwout bearings, and 1
transmission ($1500) and I did the R&R. Been thru 3 air conditioning
compressors so far. It eats front pads annually. Dash broke from lower
rt corner and rattles & shakes from hitting a speed bump, a freaking
normal speed bump! I haul no heavy loads, rarely tow except our 15'
camping trailer 2-3 times a summer and do not overload or abuse - ever.
Has 92k miles & was bought new.
- last one is an 89 Daihatsu, uglier than homemade sin, like an egg on 4
wheels, too ugly for anyone to steal but runs and runs and runs with
never a problem. 40 mpg in town and dependable. Has 92k miles & bought
w/ 25k miles. Best damned vehicle I ever owned.
This is a toughie.
First off, I don't think anyone should buy junk, no matter where it is
However, one could push the concept further and insist on buying only
items made in Wisconsin, or whatever it is you reside. After all, why
put someone out of work in Wisconsin by buying something made in
Turn this around and look at it from the viewpoint of someone in
Poorcounrty, Aftrica. He can make a quality product and sell if for
less, so we tell him that he ain't an Americian, so he can starve no
matter how good his stuff is?
Or, maybe good ol' Uncle Sam should put a tarrif on imported tools, no
matter how good or bad, so we can all pay more and keep a few more
overpriced workers employed.
(Remove tung from cheek.)
I think everyone should have a fair change to make a living by selling
a good product at a fair price, no matter who he is or where he is.
All else being equal, I'd rather buy from my neighbor than someone
half way around the world - Its easier to get my hands around his
throat if something goes wrong.
I also think that the typical US consumer doesn't know a quality
product when he sees it, so he has only two things left to make a
buying decision on - price and features. Since most of us don't have
the money for all the bells and whistle, we go with the lowest price -
usually meaning cheap and foreign. I think we need to consider
ourselves lucky that there are as many good products at reasonable
prices as there are. A lot of that is due to the ability of some poor
slob living in a hut to do quality work at a horribly low wage.
There's more to the world than the US of A - for better or for worse.
Put on your flameproof underwear. But as a tool and diemaker who has
seen my trade decimated in the last few years, I wholeheartedly agree
with you. That's why I bought a Unisaw that was made here. It seems like
the X5 series is Taiwanese, but the limited edition (phasing out) was
made here. I too would also rather pay a little more to keep some of
the manufacturing in the States.
Brian Elfert wrote:
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:19:16 GMT, "@sbc(nospam)global.net"
But, in reality, yer helping finance their plan to push more
manufacturing to Taiwan.
And I think you and most everyone else here is confusing 'made' in
America with 'assembled' in America. I'm not sure of the ratio, but I
think most of our steel comes from overseas.
Have a nice week...
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity!
THere was an article recently (in the WashPost, I think) about all the
Beemers at Cosco. According to their study, wealthier people want to
pay the low price for stuff they don't really care about, but are
willing to spend the extra dough on stuff that's important to them
(e.g. cars, fancy gourmet kitchen, etc.).
Personally, I kinda think that's true across the board, though, of
course, those with less money have less of a choice to spend the
Now, the question that I've had for a while, since I saw that the new
X5 version of the DJ20 jointer isn't made here, is as follows: Delta
has established a reputation as a pretty good ww machinery maker. So,
when you haul your manufacturing op oversees, because it's CHEAPER,
the assumption can't help but being that the quality is degraded. Why
the heck wouldn't Delta want to do everything possible to maintain
their rep, and thus justify somewhat higher prices (i.e. aim at the
more exclusive market niche rather than the masses), rather than
bowing to the ever prevalent modus operandi of cheap(er) Chinese junk?
i.e. if they could maintain their reputation, which has apparently
sagged of late, they could justify the higher price and say we got Jet
beat on our quality, robustness, etc. While some might say, well, I'm
just a home woodworker and don't need the extra robustness, surely
there are enough folks out there after the extra quality that they
don't have to surrender?
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:19:16 GMT, "@sbc(nospam)global.net"
My mountain bike is 6 years old now. Chinese titanium, and a beautiful
piece of work. If there's a call for it, China can deliver real
BT W - Take a look at the recent prices for Chinese art; genuine
stuff, not export trade or modern tat. A vase sold recently (New York
?) for $300K,to a Chinese eel farmer. There's money in China now, and
they're wanting their heritage back.
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
Which is the ultimate irony.
Mao destroyed billions of dollars worth of chinese antiquities in his
"cultrual revolution". He felt that all those old things would restrict
their movement into a modern communist state. If he had not destroyed all
these precious artifacts, China would have untold wealth available to
No idea what they would spend it on though. Probably weapons.
Here's a spreadsheet I made up of some simple numbers for the choice
Dewalt might have had for their cabinet saw line. The "Hi Quality"
numbers is the "made in America" choice, the "Low Quality" is the
You can play around with it, but the example below is one possible
cost structure..Where Hi Quality cost is only $100 more than Lo
Quality...you need a lot more sales (40% more) to make the same
profits...If making it in China is very cheap then you don't need a
very large % increase in sales to match the Hi quality profit... In
fact if the cost to make in China is $650, you still make more money
on only a 10 % increase in sales.
Notes: My assumption is that at a lower price you will increase sales.
Also, there are many hidden risks that most companies ignore in "off
shoring" for the first time..such as currency fluctuations, foriegn
government meddling in factory ownership/regulations, labor, shipping,
Hi Quality Qty 1000
Low Quality Qty 1400
Hi Quality Sale Price 1200
Lo Quality Sale Price 1000
Hi Quality Cost 850
Lo Quality Cost 750
Hi Quality Lo Quality
Net Sales $1,200,000.00 $1,400,000.00
Less Cost $850,000.00 $1,050,000.00
Gross Profit $350,000.00 $350,000.00
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