Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says it can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I take it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount, and isn't harmful? Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not air tight, there's some fresh air coming in, so I have some ventilation.
What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the heater ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to mention my house...
Does anyone use one of these? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
Nope, but I know someone who has an gas fired infrared heating tube ( Radiant heat) in his 24' x 26' shop and it is always comfy and warm in there. Even when it is - 30 celcius. All told I think it cost him $1000 cdn. but would be worth it. When I build my garage I will be putting one in. Is cheaper on gas than a real furnace, so he tells me, and it vents directly out the garage wall. No fumes, no worries about fire. I was there a couple of times in the winter last year when it was in the triple digits below zero and when he fired it up the whole space was toasty warm in about
I doubt you would generate that much dust in the air to ignite it but here's what I did when my shop was in the garage. I would light the kero heater and leave it on for about 30 min which would bring the garage up to around
50 deg when it was 0 outside. I have leakage around the doors too but it stayed comfortable for about 2 hours. Take a coffee break, relight it and shortly it's back up to the comfy level.
Kerosene does give off moisture so be sure your cast iron is protected.
There is some safety concerns with CO and fire. They will give an odor if you let them go dry while burning. An electric heater is safer and I say the extra cost in running it is worth it. You can also use an infrared lamp.
I can imagine. It's 12 F here in Virginia. Last week it was 65 F. This sucks, Beavis.
I would take any claim that it doesn't give off CO (carbon monoxide) with a great deal of suspicion, and buy a carbon monoxide detector to be safe. Usually they say something about needing a source of fresh air. It's also my experience that drafts (say from walking by) can momentarily screw up combustion, causing the emission of lovely black soot until the flame settles back down.
Personally, I *hate* kerosene heaters. They *definitely* give off an odor, and that odor gives me a headache. I have the same reaction to diesel gasoline fumes too. Getting spilled fuel on my clothes makes for a miserable day.
Spilled fuel, now *there's* something to worry about. Liquid fuel, open flame. I was constantly worried about somehow knocking the heater over and starting a conflagration.
I dumped my kero heater after about two days. (I got it free, so all I had to buy was a fuel can and some kerosene.) I bought one of those Mr. Heater
9,000/15,000 BTU propane heaters at Lowe's. It was the only portable propane heater they had that was rated for being run indoors, unvented. I do smell some fumes from *that* too, but they don't bother me nearly as much. The thing is (supposedly) safe to run inside a tent. My fuel tank sits outside, and I turn the gas off when I'm not using the heater, so the chances of a mishap are IMHO much reduced compared to liquid fuel.
That's a big can o' worms. The doom and gloom people will tell you how dangerous that is, and the "I throw cigarettes into puddles of gas" people will tell you how unlikely it is that a dust explosion will ever happen.
Personally, I'm in the latter camp. I'm not much worried about developing a high enough concentration of dust to cause an explosion. That's my personal decision though, and is not meant to be taken as advice. Make up your own mind.
Anyway, on the subject of heat generally, I say go for it! This is my first year with heat in the shop. It's horribly wasteful of me to spend money heating this uninsulated, leaky thing, but it sure is nice being able to continue to work.
CO2 is not the problem, CO is and I would assume that it emits it at a safe level. I have yet to see a kerosene heater that didn't smell and would rather and do use electric instead, even though it costs a little more.
I've been using a Kerosun heater since 1995, first in my garage, then in two subsequent shop buildings. They do put out a slight odor, but if you keep them filled and make sure they are burning and not smoldering, it (IMO) is pretty minimal. Actually, for me it is somewhat nostalgic since Dad used kerosene heaters to heat the dairy barn when I was growing up. Most of the smoke and soot I get come when I shut off the heater.
As far as dust fires, if you have that much dust in the air that it could combust, you have more serious problems than worrying about a dust fire.
The advice to get a CO detector is probably good advice, just for safety sake.
Several considerations:
Some of this depends upon the level of housekeeping you do in your shop. If you have a lot of "stuff" piled all over the place, anything with an open flame is probably a bad idea.
Kerosene is not a common commodity in some places (i.e. like Tucson); I have thus far only found one source, they know they are the only source and price accordingly (.75 per gallon this year). They also only stock it for a certain part of the year, when I called around Thanksgiving they did not yet have any in stock even though it was cool enough to need a heater about then.
I chose to keep using kerosene rather than going to electric heat because the amount of heat needed to warm up the shop was going to use a significant number of the amps I have available from my shop's electric service.
Thus far, neither in Tucson nor in Dallas did I encounter any issues with excess water vapor from the heater causing any problems with rust.
Thanks for all the input guys - there's an electric baseboard type unit, and and several types of propane units at the Borg and at Lowes - I think I'll look at those and try to make a decision.
I've got one of those too... been using it for two years to heat the garage when I just can't stand it anymore. Last night I ran out of kerosene so I went out and bought some diesel fuel instead. I figure it may smell a little different possibly; certainly I paid more for diesel than I would have paid for kerosene, but it should be safe enough. I just didn't feel like wandering all over town looking for a place that sells kerosene at that hour.
Jet A = Kerosene = Heating Oil = Diesel Fuel
It's all basically the same stuff with different color dies and tax rates; at least that's my theory. If I'm wrong, I'll stop posting here and assume my place in the morning headlines.
If your heating device has an open flame, it is best to have one where you can vent to the outdoors. CO (Carbon monoxide) is odorless and kills. Even if you say your place is not airtight, there can be sufficient buildup of the gas to cause headache and to affect your ability to think. If you were to install a CO detector, it'd most likely be going off constantly.
$114 seems like a deal... Why not take the money you would spend on a 911 call to the ER and put it toward a good heater, one which is properly vented? You would most likely have money left over to buy some nice tools. Take the money your frau would spend on a funderal, and you perhaps outfi the entire shop.
Woodworking is a great hobby, but only if one is around long enough to enjoy it. Be safe.
National Fire Code, but I forget the specific regulation number.
If the garage is attached to the house, it is illegal to have a woodstove in the garage. Embers can remain hot for days and potentially ignite fumes from gasoline.
They do make for nice heat though, just watch for fumes from chemicals. Ed
It most certainly will produce CO2, so do you. ;-) There is always a small amount of CO2 in fresh air. So long as you burn the proper fuel, keep it clean and there is minimal ventilation then it will not produce a toxic concentration or significant CO (carbon monoxide) which is the highly toxic gas to be concerned about.
They are nearly odorless, if you use high-grade kerosine.
Drills, saws, jointers, planers and most other power tools produce mostly chips, and little fine airborn dust. The danger with dust is if something suddenly throws a high concentration up into the air, for example if you turn on a shop vac and forgot to put the filter in it or a pile of sawdust in the frame of the table saw reaches the angle of repose and slides down into the belt and gets scattered.
The simple solution is to use the heater to heat up the shop, shut it down before doing anything that can generate a lot of dust, like sweeping the floor, and when it gets too cold, open the door to vent the dust, turn the heater back on and take a break until the shop heats up again.
Well OK, it depend a lot on your sensitivity. Some people can taste the difference ebetween olive and other vegetable oils, I cannot.
This is one reason why it is critical to use the proper fuel. Kerosene is combustible--flashpoint above 140 F (or is it 150, I don't remember). The flashpoint of gasoline is much lower so that using gasoline in a kerosine anything is a serious mistake.
Using a heavier or dirtier fuel will give you a dirtier exhaust and can produce more CO.
They have one of those in the shop at work. I'm glad I don't work in the shop at work. It gives me a headache just standing in there long enough to get my paycheck. It's also LOUD. Puts out a ton of heat though. I think theirs is a 150,000 BTU model.
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