I want to build a kitchen island, ~3' x4'. I am going to use a slab of granite for the top, but have some questions on the carcass.
I have lot of black cherry that came from a tree I felled and had milled on the property. I thought it would be nice to build this from that. But all the how-to's I come across regarding cabinet building refers to using plywood for the carcass. Now, I could just use cherry ply for the sides and back, then use my wood for the rest, but is this necessary? I mean, what if I glued up panels from the wood I have and used that in lieu of the plywood? Are there reasons of seasonality that dictates one use plywood?
A plywood carcass will be easy to make square and it will stay square. Use it as a skeleton to be 'dressed up' in a creative way with your cherry. Keep in mind that cherry ply won't age the same as solid cherry (or take stain....*gasp*) Considering that you want the entire cabinet to have a flawless flat horizontal plane, so that there will not be any stress points for the granite. The plywood interior will also give you a leg up on making shelves and hinge mounting easier. Look into a 32mm layout for your hinge locations.
? =A0I mean, what if I glued up panels from the wood I have and
This sounds like a really cool project. You could build the whole thing as frame and panel. This is how case work (dressers, amoire, etc.) are built. The concept would be to make some nice beefy legs at the corners and build some nice panels. I would use like 1/2" panles so you could glue up 3/4 panels and find a shop with a wide belt sander to let you flatten and dimension them. Try to select a common width, say 12" max for all panels so you can just glue up a bunch of appropriate stock. them.
There's a trend running amok in all the McMansions around here in which they build kitchen islands out of base cabinets. They take a big base cabinet or two, screw them together and stick a counter top on it. Then they take cheap-@$$ molding and trim out the corners and seems. So what you end up with a face frame on 1 side and corner trim everywhere else.... an island that only looks good from one side.... kind of like Maui. :-)
Base cabinets were never meant to be seen on all 4 sides. They only reason they are passable is because they use pre-finished plywood for the cases. I *have* seen it done where they used the same wood as the face frame and trimmed it out so it looked like face frames all the way around. But those are trim carpenters on a job site using prefabbed cabinets.
If I were doing it from scratch... and I soon will be on an "isthmus" in our kitchen... I would build the whole thing with frame and panel construction.
I see. So I want to use the ply for the sides and back, then use my wood for the face, drawers, and trim.
-Jim
A few years ago I built a kitchen island. I believe it was someone in this group who told me to use 1/2" or 3/4" plywood for my panels. That way when they get bump they don't seem hollow like 1/4" plywood does. I followed the advice and it made a huge difference.
When I saw your post that hint popped into my head.
=A0I mean, what if I glued up panels from the wood I have and
Frame and panel construction accounts for the seasonality of panel movement if built properly. Second reason to go with panels is I don't belive you will ever find plywood to match well with your homwgrown wood, maybe but not very likely.
we have 2 penninsulas in my kitchen. the cabinet maker made simple boxes, then skinned all visible faces with raised panels that matched the profiles of the doors.
Well, that was kind of a surprise. The tree had to come down as I didn't trust it so close to the house/cars, and it didn't look overly healthy. Anyway, when they came to take it down I asked them if they could mill me anything that looked relativity straight, thinking I'd get a few pieces. They said sure, they knew a guy with a mill that would do it and they would drop it back off.
A couple of weeks later I come home and there is a pile of wood ~10' x
12' x 5' high. I stood there thinking "what the hell will I do with all of this?". Luckily my neighbor also does woodworking and has a lot more land then I do (my lot is 50'x125'). So I told him I would split it with him if he would store it there for me. He helped me stack it in layers and now, a year and half later, it's is testing dry. The only bad thing was they guy milled it as just over 4/4. But the longest pieces are 12+ feet and maybe 12" wide at the widest point.
The milling cost $80.
Now it's time to do something with it. My skills up to this point have been small, jewelry boxes, tea boxes, pens, outdoor shower, bar top. So I'm kind of excited to take on a real cabinet project. I like the frame and panel idea, that would be great.
The dimensions of the carcass will likely be 2'x4', so I could do maybe 4" panels on the side and 6" on the back? The problem might be that I only have a 4" jointer. I suppose I could edge glue 2 4" boards for each section in the back and have them be 8" panels. Does this make sense? Guess I'll do a sketchup drawing and see if it looks right.
yes. i'm not sure how the panels are attached to the boxes though, as i only saw the install rather than the building. i'm assuming glue because there are no screw holes on the interiors.
they are a lot heavier than usual, though, due to this construction method.
our island is made the same way. full size deep pot drawers on one side facing the stove, cabinet doors for small appliances on the other, with wide but shallow drawers above for rolling pins, and both ends have raised panels.
Oh and by the way... I've seen that and it looks just as bad. It's done on end cabinets. They just take a door *close to* the size of the cabinet side and screw (from the inside) the badboy on there. They just center it on the cabinet, so you see this door with a 1/2" of box around the perimeter. Looks almost as bad as leaving the plain box.
sorry, nope. this was a custom house. i designed the house floorplan and kitchen completely, and did a bunch of the work on it myself. if swmbo would have agreed to not have a kitchen for months, i would have done them myself.
the cabinets are completely skinned. the panels are sized not to look like doors, nor are the same size as the opening doors, but to look like a box made out of panels.
I would never consider using hardwood plywood for an exposed side, like an island would have. Never. There is no way that the purchased hardwood plywood will take stain and have the same color and grain that your cherry lumber will have.
I have done it four ways.
One, glue up 3/4" thick (I will use the hardwood you are using for writing purposes) cherry for the exposed ends and back. Probably my fourth favorite way. Objections are that a big expanse of wood with no details looks plain to me. Also, possible problems with stability due to moisture and temperature changes. Not as much as an issue if wood has kiln dried and then seasoned in a heated and cooled environment for a few months, or air dried for long period then seasoned in the heated and cooled environment for a few months.
Two, use plywood carcass, then resaw 1/4" to 3/8" thick planks, glue together to make a veneer to glue on top of the plywood. Must make sure the cherry is good and dry, and that plywood and planks are seasoned in a heated and cooled environment for a while, (hopefully in the same environment) so they will be stable and not shrink at different rates with humidity changes. Better than above first method, because it will be more stable, and flat and strong. Still, it is my third favorite way, because of it possibly looking too plain.
Three, make all of the back and sides with rails and stiles and raised panels, but without doors. They look kinda' like the doors, but are all fixed elements. I usually make the rail at the top a good bit taller, for strength against racking. I also make a toe kick all of the way around. My second favorite way, because of the interest the panels give to the cabinet. The wood will match and take stain the same as the doors and drawers side, being a big bonus.
Four, my favorite way, is to make the ends look like a raised panel but fixed, or sometimes, I make it as a solid glued up panel out of the cherry. The plywood floor of the cabinet makes the bottom of the plain panels stay straight, and I put an extra "cleat" at the top to keep it straight, but oval out the screw holes (on the inside on the cleat board) to make it have a bit of humidity expansion ability. Using either of the methods for the ends, I put a toe kick space all of the way around the island, for interest, non-scuffing of the panel, and to make the raised panel method look more like doors. On the long side on the back of the island, I make it like the front, using a face frame and with raised panel doors. If the island is to have a overhanging or dropped eating bar, I make the doors low enough to open under the counter top. The stiles in the middle or end may have to be a bit wider, to put counter-top braces. (if they are needed) I like this way the best, because it makes for a very interesting detailed surface, and most of all, it is just plain handy to be able to get at the cabinet storage space from the other side, at times. For islands where there are drawer stacks, or it is otherwise unpractical to use functioning doors, I still make a frame and door long side, but permanently fix some or all doors in the closed position.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope it gives you some ideas.
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