yale eurocylinder, inner key blocks use of outer key

Probably so that you can lock the door from the inside and be sure that no-one can open it from the outside - rather like using a separate bolt.

You can buy replacement cylinders that allow operation from both sides though.

SteveW

Aha, that is what I will do I think. Presumably they would just stick out a bit further, which would be fine.

However I believe that such an extrusion is apparently the weak point with Euro cylinders. I don't know any more than that so hopefully someone with more knowledge can confirm/deny this and explain further.

Mathew

I heard of someone who had locked themselves out (after leaving by another door with a latch bolt) and called a locksmith (another key was in the lock on the inside). He filed a bit off the end of the key and it allowed the key to then open the lock.

Any views on why this worked?

It was then short enough to NOT touch the key in the inside cylinder?

When you've got a kitten that's too small to go out and you don't want your SO to let it out by accident as they get home?

If you insist on permanently having a key inserted on the inside you should change the cylinder to one with a thumbturn on the inside, that would alleviate your problem. The other crude alternative is to file enough off the tip of your external key to allow it to be fully inserted, just dont file enough off to remove the bit of the key that lifts the pins in the cylinder. Last option is to change the lock body mechanism to one that doesn't lock automatically when door is shut.

I can confirm the cylinder must not protrude (at least on the secured side, the side with the handle without screw fixings, i.e. the outside). Sorry I'm not going to explain why.

I don't think there are many people left in the country that don't know how to do this.

We are saving up for replacements. :((

Well, I don't 'insist' on having a key on the inside, but I'd prefer to know that if I have a key to the house I can be certain that I can use it to get back in.

I'll file the keys i think. That's cheaperthan fitting longer cylinders which in any case seem to be out of favour.

But does anyone know why they are made like this? Is it a design error or is there some security reason that means it's a feature worth having?

Robert

On 29 Jun 2007 00:22:36 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) mused:

Can still be opened in under 20 seconds though.

One web-site (part of a commercial site selling such cylinders) suggests

I have also seen euro lock cylinders with a built-in breaking point to defeat the "usual" mechanical attack.

As one data point, I lost my keys and called in a national chain locksmith. This was a 5-pin euro-profile cylinder.

He first tried a very noisy electrical lock picker which inserts some kind of blade into the cylinder and then seems to manipulate the pins rapidly. It failed to open the lock after about two minutes of trying.

However, I assume he was expecting this to work rapidly.

Then he asked if he could drill it. This was actually much quieter and succeeded in less than 60 seconds. I am sure this would not have been noticed even at night.

Just how secure is "secure enough" and what do you do to achieve it?

On 29 Jun 2007 11:07:11 GMT, John Phillips mused:

That wasn't a locksmith, that was a bloke with an electric rattly thing and a drill.

If you enter the house and have chosen to lock the door from the inside and leave the key in place it is assumed that you don't want intrusion from the outside, it is fail secure. If you want to permit access for the outside having locked the door from the inside you remove the key.

Beware of filing the nose from the key, as cheap euros use the nose to activate the cam as opposed to using the plug-with-key-inserted to activate the cam. eg ERA are cheap euros that use the nose to activate the cam.

It stops you from locking the door having left your SOH keys in the outside lock.

Typical American Tech -Support type answer :

"Guess it must be made that way" ;-)

I managed to lock myself out of a duplex apartment in Prague by slamming the door with the second key in the lock on the inside. The landlord called a locksmith who opened the door with a triangular shaped piece of sheet metal bent to the profile of the UPVC door jamb. He entered it into gap at the top of the locking stile and slid it downwards 'till it encountered the latchbolt pushing it back.

I presume there are deadbolt versions upon which this method would fail.

DG

In article , dennis@home writes

Who are you replying to?

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:31:33 GMT, fred mused:

But the OP's lock automatically locks when the door is shut whther there's a key in it or not.