Is there such a think as a yale type lock that *can't* be "snibbed" or otherwise secured from the inside to prevent access? It's for an elderly lady who needs social services support but who sometimes accidentally (or perhaps deliberately) leaves the lock snibbed occasionally preventing access.
Standard Euro cylinder locks are no use as they can be blocked by leaving the key in the lock on the inside.
Tim
Remove the button.
Whether or not it is legal to put a person in a position where they can't refuse entry to their own home may be quite complicated: unless you have an exact understanding of how the woman's health is viewed by the courts, I recommend you talk the situation over on uk.legal.moderated before exposing yourself to possible civil or criminal action.
Regarding the lock: it is very easy to remove the 'catch' from a bog-standard Yale lock using nothing more than a cross-head screwdriver.
Nick
What about a Euro Cylinder lock with a thumb-turn on the inside?
I'd agree it it tricky and I'm not sure whether I will persue it, I really just wanted to know if it was possible. If I *don't* persue it, the lady concern will very likely end up in a care home sooner rather than later (which she vehemently opposes). She *needs* social services support to maintain what independence she has at present. Unfortunately, she has a poor perception of her abilities to look after herself and without support I can't see her staying at home for more than a few weeks.
Thanks. I'll have a closer look at the existing lock.
Tim
Please don't think I don't sympathise - my late mother was a real worry too. But unless the Court of Protection has already become involved or an Enduring Power of Attorney was properly set up and is now activated, it could be very sticky ground for others - even close relatives - taking decisions like that on her behalf.
Nick
We do have enduring POA and it's in the process of being activated. We just want to protect her from her own pigheadedness to enable her to stay in her own home as long as possible. To be honest, it would be much much easier just to leave her fail in her own home.
Thanks for the warning though.
Tim
Looks like a possibility but I'm not absolutely sure that those won't deadlock when locked with the thumbturn.
Tim
There's a 40 year old Yale here which has always been viewed with suspicion (ever since, aged 3, I locked everyone out :-) ) and occasionally has been found in the snibbed position, probably through being knocked.
In a fit of industriousness recently, I took the lock off for a look. The snib action was a bit of tin plate that moved up and down (operating against the internal handle IIRC.) By putting a twist in this bit of metal it allowed a firm twist of the key to overcome the (undesirable) locked shut action whilst retaining the (desirable) locked open action.
I use a Euro thumbturn myself, and I can confirm that it does *not* prevent the key from opening the door regardless of the 'state' of the internal thumbturn.
hth.
Thanks, that's handy to know.
Tim
Our social services people (Lancashire) just broke the door down.
Utter useless incompetent bastards, the lot of them. 8-(
Thanks.
Tim
Not the one I've got. I can lock it from this inside using the thumb-turn when I go to bed but anyone else can open it from the outside with the key.
I chose it because I wanted a mortice deadlock that I could lock at night to satisfy the insurance company but which I did not have to find the key for if I woke up in the middle of the night to find a dark house full of smoke.
Andrew
Not quite sure how that satisfies the definition of a deadlock?
Not quite sure why you would think it wouldn't.
That looks an interesting solution to our problem. We have E lock and 4 keys for it. One stays in the house all the time and the others are mine, wife's and son's.
My worry is that our son might not me able to get into our house in case one of us is away and the other falls ill.
Thanks for that
Dave
i thought you could get euro cylinders with a clutch that defeated that problem (I think partly for exit doors so that a key outside did not stop people leaving)
I was using the definition from Wikipedia:
"A deadlock may be either single cylinder or double cylinder. A single cylinder deadlock will accept a key on one side of the lock, but is operated by a twist knob on the other side. Double cylinder locks will accept a key on both sides and therefore do not require (and often do not have) any twist knob."
That isn't a definition of a deadlock. It is a description of some types of deadlock.
Wikipedia's actual definition is higher up the page:
"A dead bolt or dead lock (also deadbolt), is a locking mechanism distinct from a spring-bolt lock because a deadbolt cannot be moved to the open position except by rotating the lock cylinder. The more common spring-bolt lock (often called a "night latch") uses a spring to hold the bolt in place, allowing retraction by applying force to the bolt itself. A deadbolt can therefore make a door more resistant to entry without the correct key."
I think Dave's problem with this approach is that he associates cylinder locks with spring-bolt night latches, and reckons only non-cylinder (lever type) locks qualify as "dead". But that is not the case, not all cylinder locks are spring loaded, some have a proper dead-bolt which can only be moved by turning the key (or the thumb-turn).
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