What choices are there in fire resistant insulation?

Original description in tower fire thread was of polystyrene glued to plywood, now know tower to be different.

Polystyrene or PIR foam sandwiched between sheets of OSB does describe Structurally Insulated Panels, SIPS.

Was quite keen on this method of construction potentially for some single level workshop/office space. Its simple, quick and very highly insulated.

It can achieve Class 0 fire rating when lined internally with plasterboard.

Appears a petrol soaked rag wrapped in tinfoil can achieve a Class 0 fire rating.

Quite honestly am considerably more wary of using PIR foam insulation anywhere now.

What`s the alernatives, natural sheeps wool? mineral wool? something else?

Thanks!

Reply to
Adam Aglionby
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at nearly twice the thickness ...

Reply to
Andy Burns

ructurally Insulated Panels, SIPS.

I'm sceptical of the security of this sort of material; it seems too easy t o cut through the wall with a jigsaw for burglarious purposes.

However for fire, in a single storey building with automatic fire detection and adequate exits, you should be able to get out quickly enough. The chap in the Grenfell flat where the fire started got out - it was the other peo ple in the building that were unfortunate.

Owain

Reply to
spuorgelgoog

The risks in low rise accommodation are different in the first place though, so its hard to make a call.

Just the presence of *any* insulation inside a closed space will result in faster fire spread, since it will facilitate a faster temperature rise in the room - you reach the point at which other combustible materials will spontaneously ignite sooner...

External insulation of a masonry structure (as per the tower) would probably be the best scenario for a domestic setting since the source of the fire is likely to be inside not the outside, and the higher thermal mass of the masonry will result in it taking a bit longer for a fire to start spreading rapidly as a result of auto ignition. (this may of course be a moot point since in most domestic situations the toxic smoke will get you before the fire does).

Hence the standard advice for domestic fires of detect it early, and if it can't be tackled easily and safely, the get out fast still seems like the best option.

Reply to
John Rumm

Silica aerogel?

Reply to
A_lurker

In message , at

13:33:18 on Mon, 26 Jun 2017, John Rumm remarked:

Reinforced concrete, shirley?

Reply to
Roland Perry

I think its actually polyurethane and the flammable gas inside is somehow were not there in the stuff they use. its all a problem with how you set it on fire. if you heat outside or inside the heat tends to melt it first and it falls off, but if you delaminate it or get fire on its edge all bets are off, this as the guy on the bbc suggests is in fact what started the problem. Really that means that people have been basing safety on a false expectation of what fire will do. I really do think the regulators were asleep at the wheel to allow this crap to be seen as safety Fire will do whatever it wants, it does not always follow what you think it will do. Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

Maybe we need to reevaluate asbestos cement. It may not be the most friendly of materials, and very heavy, but its a mineral and is only dangerous if fibrous or ground up into a fine powder. Of course its not very good for keeping you warm either, though it is good at not catching fire! Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

I would count that as masonry for the purposes of this discussion.

Reply to
John Rumm

You need something with a built-in fire suppressant, if such exists. For example, the kitchen work-top material 'Corian' contains aluminium hydroxide aka alumina trihydrate aka ATH aka Martifin aka gibbsite which acts both as an opacifier and as a fire suppressant. It decomposes at quite a low temperature by losing water as vapour/steam, thus sweeping away surrounding oxygen and inhibiting combustion. Magnesium hydroxide can perform a similar function.

But there are also a lot of organic additives to polymers that suppress combustion. For general information see

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But I guess they all add expense...

Reply to
Chris Hogg

Fire resistant celotex.

Usually you use either celotex or mineral walls in a cavity of somesort, but this is retrofitting to old shonk - blocks that should have never been put up, and should have died years ago

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Glassfibre & rockwool batts/roll/loosefill.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

On 26-Jun-17 12:51 PM, Adam Aglionby wrote: ...

There are various foamed glass and foamed mineral panels that are inherently both fire and mould resistant.

Reply to
Nightjar

In message , at

16:51:06 on Mon, 26 Jun 2017, John Rumm remarked:

Only if you roll up your trouser leg.

Reply to
Roland Perry

But most doors can be cut through even easier or glass cut/removed, even roof tiles removed.

Yes, as long as you know about the fire and have suitable exits, it will take very little time to exit a normal house.

In the one case of a house fire that I was in (prior to homes having smoke alarms), the fire was detected, but ignored ... I was 9 and thought it was just the toaster buring the toast downstairs! I finished the chapter of the book I was reading, got out of bed and then found the fire. We cleared the house, called the fire brigade and waited. Fire damage was confined to my parents' bedroom (bed, furniture, carpet and one floorboard), smoke damage ruined everything upstairs, even the grout between the bathroom tiles!

With a smoke alarm, the fire would have been detected and acted upon early enough that we could have contained all the damage to the one room.

SteveW

Reply to
Steve Walker

Anything that isn`t steel or masonry is an attack vector for scroats.

FR PIR shouldn`t burn but apprently does

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Aerogels look like a contender

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Not cheap for sure

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ticks the fire resistant box and lot thinner than mineral wool

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Foamed glass dosent look cheap, energy intensive manufacture, but is available as cladding

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Its a cost/risk balance but PIR unless it`s encased just dosent look like it`s worth the risk at any cost.

Reply to
Adam Aglionby

Mineral wool, asbestos and foamed concrete are about the only totally non flammable insulators.

Others depend on the gas in the bubbles and being isolated from the air.

Reply to
harry

TBH Harry suprised you didn`t suggest aerogels, nothing flammable and the bubbles are air, could even have left you some natural light through your windows ;-)

Reply to
Adam Aglionby

and of course the ones that *look* like they should work but do pretty much SFA

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Reply to
Adam Aglionby

Why do you think they look like they should work? Basic physics says they are rubbish.

The only thing that gives really good insulation that is thin is a vacuum. Aerogels are quite good but nowhere near as good as a vacuum.

Reply to
dennis

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