Washing Machine Does Not Remove Detergent!

Hi,
I am a reasonable DIYer and have had various problems with my 8 year old Zanussi Jet Stream machine which I have resolved, including renewing the drum bearing last year!
I had some problems with dermatitis and found the machine leaves some detergent in the water after 3 rinses and cannot seem to resolve the sutuation. I would appreciate any thoughts before getting rid of my "Old Friend". What I have checked so far:
1.    Checked filter and outlet pipes are clear (including drum), also tried with direct U-bend outlet into sink.
2.    Pump operates OK and have checked 240 volts is supplied when operating. Pump removed and impeller seems to be free and fixed to shaft.
3.    Put a small amount of powder directly into drum with no clothes in it and there were still quite a lot of suds in it even after extra rinsing (5 times).
I was told that on this machine (FJS 1197W) there is no control over pump except for timing and that it should remove full drum in about 75 seconds, which it seems to do! However I do not get a "whooshing" sound (sorry about this non tech term!) at the end of draining period. What I suspect is happening is that the pump is not producing a sufficient head to fully push all the water out, is this a possibility or do pumps just work or not work?
Anything I may have missed?
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Peter Hemmings wrote:

The lack of 'wooshing' is the clue. If the outer drum is empty the pump is pumping air and makes a noise. I suspect your reference to an empty drum is the inner drum? How much water is left in the machine when the cycle has finished. Should be no more than an 'outlet hoseful' (another technical term)plus a bit for the pump itself. Check this by removing the filter and draining into a shallow tray.
Another test if you feel electrically competent is wait until the machine has finished, unplug from mains, disconnect the pump wires and attach a separate lead to plug into the mains. See how long the pump needs to be powered for to get the 'wooshing' noise to start.
Bob
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Peter Hemmings wrote:

Most machines are cold rinse. Instead of mainwash + 3 cold rinses, try using the machine manually to do a mainwash then a second mainwash without detergent (maybe a 40C wool wash which doesn't take long).
It is possible detergenty water is running back from the drain hose into the machine at the end of pumping if the drain hose end is higher than the bottom of the drum.
Owain
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Yes, the simplest and cheapest solution, use less detergent, or from no. 3 above, check to see if you are using automatic powder, as it could be non automatic.powder making too much suds. If a pump is faulty, the machine will usually stick in that pump out position, not continue washing the clothes in the same water, so too much detergent seems the most likely cause
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Thanks Bob and Harry,
Harry Stottle wrote: snip

Well I am using Fairt Non Bio, the box says use 95ml for soft water area. I have just done a wash with 45ml and its still foamy!

OK, I forgot to list my experimentation into quantities of powder! sorry.
As far Bob's post is concerned, my "wooshing" was in fact referring to when the I thought the outer (non rotating) was empty. I will check and let you know how much can be taken from the filter. On this model there is also a pipe from the other "Jet" pump which enters the base of the filter, I assume this is just a drain ti the lowest point? This pipe and the other pump are the only parts I have not checked. I might just do it though1
Further to that, after a cycle, I took off the pressure tube on one of the level sensors and could still blow into water!, that's when I suspected it still had too much water in the outer drum.
As far as running the pump to see how long for the "whooshing" to start, I could do that but there is no need as the water does actually stop before the pump is timed out.
As I said before, I suspected (but not 100%) that the pump used to try and pump air but it does not seem to do that any longer.
I suppose a new pump for 25 is just about worth a go, but it seems to look OK and it does seem to remove water in about 80 seconds!
My wife has just done another wash with less than half the powder and had to rinse it 6 instead of 3 times.
Thank for your comments
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Firstly, the pump is not designed to pump air, and will not pump air, only liquids. Secondly, if you spend 25 on a new pump you will have wasted 25. Thirdly, if less than half the powder is still resulting in soap suds after rinsing, try 1/4 of the recommended dose. Powder makers want you to use more of their products, the more you use, the more they sell. Automatic powders shouldn't foam much anyway, even during the hot wash cycle, so perhaps a change of powder is needed.
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On Sun, 10 May 2009 19:38:35 +0100, Harry Stottle wrote:

Agreed, and keep reducing the amount of powder until the wash isn't performed well enough. Our water is soft and we use 40ml of fairy non-bio automatic powder for a wash, works fine. The recommended dose for "lightly soiled" with soft water is 115ml!
--
Cheers
Dave.




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Is the machine filling with hot water on the rinse cycles? If not it'll struggle to remove all traces of detergent. I have no central heating or hot water in the house at present so my washing machine has to heat the water itself. It does that fine on the wash cycle but I'm not sure about the rinse ones and it definitely doesn't rinse as well as it used to when there was hot water from the boiler. I usually just give it a second rinse cycle after the main wash and also make sure not to overfill with clothes which makes a huge difference to both washing and rinsing.
Try feeling the temperature of the door glass while it's rinsing. Also check that you have the hot and cold pipes connected back to the right inlets after your last bit of DIY. Get those wrong and it'll try to fill itself with cold water only and then heat that up inside afterwards. I found that was the problem with a friend's machine which was doing a crappy job of washing things.
I doubt if it's the pump. Even if a bit of water was left each time that would become diluted to almost nothing after only a couple of cycles of filling and emptying.
--
Dave Baker



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or I let the main wash finish and then put it on a quick wash cycle to act as a second rinse but one that will ensure the machine heats the water if it isn't designed to do that in a normal rinse cycle.
--
Dave Baker



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Thanks for the replies, Update:
I have found a possible source of the problem, there was a fair amount of old hard detergent powder under the powder tray. After cleaning, just tried a wash with a 50% reduction of powder, its seem a lot better!! I think I agree with other posters that a new pump is unlikely to cure the fault.
Dave Baker wrote:

Well I don't think it is designed to do that!
I have no central heating or

OK
OK, if its still a problem, I will try that.
Thanks
PS: I now need to sort a leak near the pump before re-installation, but must wait till my wife finishes the washing!!
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wrote:

I have not used the powder tray ever since I discovered that the tray didn't empty sometimes and kept adding powder to the rinse cycles. I just put the powder in with the washing and that works well.
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Matty,
Matty F wrote:

Well now yer tell me!
Thanks
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Peter Hemmings wrote:

Do you ever run a really hot wash though the machine, or always stick to 40?
If not, then try running the machine at it's hottest wash (empty) to give the internals a really good clean!
Toby...
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Peter Hemmings wrote:

The pump ether runs or doesnt, and leaks or doesnt. Evidently it does run. The drum rotates inside the outer tub.
Some of the suggestions so far have been odd. There are 2 likely causes: 1. the outlet is restricted by build up of hair or general muck, causing slow pumping. 2. the powder drawer and the assorted plastic/rubber under it is coated with washing powder detritus.
In each case, a clean out at each end should do it. Don't overlook the far end of the outlet hose, there can be a valve like device on that on the fixed plumbing, if its clogged it can be cleaned or if necessary removed.
NT
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snipped-for-privacy@care2.com wrote:

OK
Eliminated this I think.

Found some build up between detergent tray an it's housing.

No there is no valve, it goes into a pipe matrix under the sink then out to a drain. All have been checked and cleaned.
if its clogged it can be cleaned or if

Will be experimenting with less detergent as it seems to was OK with less than half the recommended amount!!
The pump does stop pumping water out before it is switched off so I assume it is emptying. But will check and report back later in the week to confirm its OK (see other posts)
Thanks
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Peter Hemmings wrote:

I have a water softener and the machine seems to wash fine with 35ml of powder!!

Just checked and no water comes out of the filter. The cover is about 50mm above the floor and the filter curves downwards. The water level is about 25mm below the opening so I now assume the pump is NOT the problem.
I will also give it a run at 90 degrees empty periodically to clean it out as suggested.
Thanks for all the advice over the last few days
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