Wanker Roofers

[Tricky Dicky]

OK an update. Spurred on by Harry's warning and our own concerns over a possible 5 month intake of CO, SWAMBO and I had a phone consultation with our GP regards some symptoms we had coincidently experienced in the same period. So we now have to go and have blood tests on Monday. She then went on to say that In the circumstances their normal advice is to evacuate the property, however we were not keen on the idea if it was avoidable. We were told to contact our local gas network provider. Northern Gas Networks duly sent an engineer out within 2 hours and he went round with his gas analyser and declared we were CO free probably in part because we had doors and windows open in the intervening days. Due to the disconnected flue he had to condemn the system and capped off the gas supply until an effective repair was carried out.

This morning my gasman arrived not being able to come yesterday due to a job overrun. He has effected a temporary repair so we can have the heating on and will return either Monday or Tuesday with some flue bends and insert a dog leg in order to reconnect the flue sections permanently in addition he will bracket the top section to stop any possible movement due to the addition of the bends.

Thank you for all the advice and sympathy especially to John. The next issue will be chasing up the roofer for the additional costs, good luck some might say :). I do feel the guy needs his knuckles rapping for leaving us in this dangerous situation which we only became aware of by sheer chance so I will give it some consideration.

Richard

[John Rumm]

ok sounds like a sensible solution.

(it did occur to me earlier with regards the joining of the flue sections - if it was a straight run from boiler up and out of the roof, it might have been a reasonable assumption made by the original fitter that it would be impossible for the sections to pull apart since the end would be locked in place by the roof, and there would be no "play" to allow them to separate).

Yup, keep us posted, it will be interesting to hear what happens.

[tabbypurr]

If that's been an issue it will solve itself.

Might have been easier to turn it off at the meter.

[Andrew]

Err, not really. Carbon Monoxide binds much more aggressively to the haemoglobin in the red cell than oxygen, which follows something called the Bohr effect. In extreme cases (the ones that cause death), the only way to get the CO out of the heamoglobin is to put the patient in one of those tanks that divers are treated in. This is tricky because there are very few available.

<snip>

[Andrew]

Forgot to mention - an elderly relative had a solid fuel rayburn which worked fine until the 4 inch cast iron flue pipe rusted away and was replaced with some modern aluminium stuff that slotted together.

This is the external vertical pipe sticking out about 3 metres above a section of brick chimney which had an access chammber to collect soot. The replacement was at the bottom of the roof slope so the joint between brick and exposed metal was about 10 feet above ground and in the leeward side of prevailing winds.

Almost immediately it was noticed that this access door started weeping sticky creosote-like gunge and the kitchen smelt smoky.

various relatives were concerned but the one who had the work done wasn't.

It was another 4-5 years before the occupant was taken to hospital with symptoms of hypothermia. It turned out she had a perforated bowel cancer and was actually suffering from septicaemia. While in hospital various tests were done and the doctors asked relatives how many cigarettes she smoked because her blood CO levels suggested about 80 per day !!.

She had never smoked in her life.

After her death, we cleared out her possessions and were amazed at how much black soot had accumulated all round the house, not just the farmhouse kitchen.

[Bill]

Just a small anecdote that might be relevant.

My son had a house in London. He drove up to the North West, stayed with us overnight and we set off across North Wales the following morning. On arrival he got a ladder from the car, dashed up it, promptly fell off and was concussed.

We were in the middle of nowhere. An air ambulance arrived and a paramedic treated him until the normal ambulance arrived to take him to Bangor Hospital. He was discharged and we went home.

I don't know who or where it was suggested, but he had his house in London tested for CO. The result was that he had the whole heating system checked out and largely replaced. As usual Dad was tapped for a large contribution.

I would now never assume that CO poisoning would solve itself quickly.

[tabbypurr]

Maybe you're not familiar with how it works. Red blood cells are replaced on an ongoing basis, so any non dangerous level of CO poisnong does inevitably resolve itself. The affected cells are simply replaced.

NT

[tabbypurr]

RBCs live 100-120 days typically. So it's not quick, but it is self solving as long as the person is not in any immediate danger.

NT

[Roger Hayter]

With a half life of 120 days! Moderate levels of CO, insufficient to incapacitate, can continue to cause harm, including brain damage, until the level falls. Which can be a long time without treatment. In the past we may have underestimated this harm.

[tony sayer]

It also makes me wonder how many people are/ have been affected by slightly leaky car exhausts as well as fossil fuel burning;?...

[Roger Hayter]

It's a very unpleasant poison. It probably binds to all sorts of metabolically important proteins, not just haemoglobin, and oxygen doesn't necessarily displace it from these. People may regain consciousness after near-fatal poisoning, with a falling COHb level after oxygen treatment, and then deteriorate back into coma over the following days or weeks.

[tabbypurr]

I spent some of my teenage years being enveloped in a cloud of the stuff each morning. Maybe that explains a few things.

NT

[whisky-dave]

There's definitely some on here ;-)

[Tricky Dicky]

Update: The Gas man has been and sorted the flue out, it needed a couple of bends to create a dog leg. It involved a few trips on the roof to get the flue sections cut to the right size he did say it was the awkward way round to do the job working from a hole in the roof rather than making the hole suit the flue position. Any way it has a couple of brackets to hold it in position and self tappers in the joints and just for good measure duct taped all the joins.

One thing he did report was that the flue had also been dislodged at the boiler too, the wankers did a thorough job :(

Monday SWAMBO and me had blood tests. They must have found something as the GP's want another consultation but over the phone so I presume it is not too serious - I hope!

Richard

[Tricky Dicky]

Further Update: The blood results have come back and there is some evidence of CO in the blood, fortunately it is at the level of a smoker and well below critical levels. However, the GP wants us to be tested for neurological damage. I really feel the wankers need hanging out to dry for all the grief they have caused us GRRRR!

Richard

[Tim Watts]

Can you report them to the council's trading standards?

[Tim+]

Testing for neurological damage sounds like a waste of time. It won?t prove a causal link.

Tim

[Andrew]

The long term health effects of sub-clinical CO poisoning is unclear.

[Tim+]

But probably not that bad. After all, many ex-smokers go on to live very well. It?s probably no worse than living at significant altitude.

Tim

[Tim Streater]

Seems a certain amount of it is produced naturally in the body anyway.