Vegan children have stunted growth

[Spike]

Pasta meals usually involve lots of (cheap) tomatoes - a known trigger for arthritic pain.

[Andrew]

You should visit some of these crofts and you might be amazed how far you have to drive your diesel vehicle to get there, and how far they have to drive to get to a 'shop'. Please explain how so-called 'rewilding' pays the bills ?

[charles]

Last week there was programme on North Uist where a lot of people had won money on the PostCode Lottery. Asked what sort of holiday they might take, having won a 5 figure sume, one couple thought they might like to go to Inverness.

[williamwright]

I'd probably be like that!

Bill

[T i m]

The Aldi pasta sauce contains tomatoes but I didn't add any extra in this instance.

So, you constantly harass me because you are concerned about my wife's

*choice* to eat such things (because she likes to, even with her arthritis) but you can't tell me why you have chosen to not eat cows or sheep?

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Do I *really* have to mention *every little and obvious thing*, *every time* I cover the subject in general, just to placate the ignorant / left brainers?

Oh, no need to answer that because it's obvious (well, to non troll / left brainers).

It's the same when mentioning anything when you *try* to use your distraction techniques to attempt to justify something ... like 'we have drunk cows milk for thousands of years' like that in any way justifies our continuing to drink it NOW.

There are *loads* of things we used to do that we no longer do (thank goodness) and so all of them were likely to be justified by the likes of you at the time when the likes of me had already opposed them.

So yes, a lot of the world was once covered in ice bit that has no bearing whatsoever in a conversation of how most of the UK (in particular) was once covered in trees (so that sets the starting timeline) and now there are far fewer.

We might want / need to go back to the time where there were loads of trees but the chances are we wouldn't want to go back to the time when we were covered in ice.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

NO, you want them to sound like that to =try to offset your desire to cause pain and suffering to (a bizarre subset) of animals.

Complicated isn't it, all this general talk, when you are a left brainer.

So, Spuke, WHY don't you eat cows and sheep?

Cheers, T i m

[Spike]

It's unacceptable to shift the grounds of a discussion you started.

Waffle.

Waffle.

There was *no* starting timeline in your unbounded argument. It's only now that you've realised your error and are back-pedalling furiously.

Unimportant on a geologic scale.

So you say, but it's the planet's natural condition. The warm bits are the anomaly.

[Spike]

<groan> Freedom of choice - something that veganists would like to ban.

[T i m]

<snip>

I have, and it was on a petrol motorcycle (doing 50 mpg). ;-)

Ah yes, and for all those *choosing* to move there or even stay there, it's part of the cost of living there.

eg. We *choose* to holiday in the country but we accept that it's not as convenient as living a walk from everything.

Grants. Keep up ...

You either leave it to nature (costs nothing) or pay someone who is stuck there [1] to look after it for us all.

Cheers, T i m

[1] Many who were born in the back of beyond don't want to live in isolation in shift and mud all their lives and move to the towns.

p.s. I saw on Countryfile where they were offering old farmers money to f*ck off to allow new people in (who would have a more 'forward thinking' attitude towards the environment).

[T i m]

<snip>

<snip bs>

Yes, I know you have the 'freedom of choice' but that isn't an answer to *why / only* sheep and cows that you don't eat?

There must be *some* sort of rational reason, even if it's only part of your general logical inconsistency and speciesism?

I mean, if when you were a child, happily stamping on chickens and then were traumatised by your Dad being killed by a cow (when trying to kill 'it' say) and your Mum killed by a sheep (when trying to do the same), I would have thought you would *want* to kill cows and sheep and the best / easiest / legal way to do that is to buy and eat their flesh? (Ok, someone else actually kills them for you but you are still causing their deaths eh).

Or maybe the trauma of recalling all that is why you can't answer such a simple and straightforward question?

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Wasn't shifting any grounds. You simply couldn't predict what would be considered by most a reasonable bounds for the discussion.

Relevant point to a right brainer.

Relevant point to a right brainer.

Relevant to the timescale likely to be in discussion. If it wasn't we would be throwing dinosaurs into the discussion and you haven't (yet).

Again, not when compared to our habitation of the world as we know and deal with it it isn't.

Cheers, T i m

[Fredxx]

Many of us post to correct your lies and fallacious claims.

No harassment intended. If you stopped posting lies you wouldn't feel harassed.

[Spike]

Get help for your problem, or at least start eating meat.

[Spike]

I never mentioned your wife.

But now you have dragged her into the discussion, I take it you lecture her constantly about her cognitive dissonance concerning tomatoes and joint pain. No?

[Andrew]

You mean TAXES

If ypu are going to use (mostly) English taxes to pay those grants, then they might as well use animals to take care of the management (which they do, very effectively) and a useful byproduct is food for the people who live there to make sure the animals don't escape.

What's more, now we have escaped the EU we could ditch all those idiotic regulations that forced the closure of many abbatoirs and resulted in animals being transported longer distances.

Or not, or the same. What makes you think that existing farmers don't care about the environment ?. From what I can see it is the regular invasion of (younger) townies, damaging dry-stone walls, and leaving crap (literally), single-use plastic and bbqs everywhere who care the least about the environment.

[T i m]

<snip>

The person needing help is the one incapable of answering a simple question re why they made a specific choice.

I believe it's because you are lying or have something to hide as even someone as thick as you must know whey they have *chosen* (implying a decision) to not eat sheep or cows but eat everything else.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Liar. As soon as I mentioned my wife had arthritis previously you mention the link to tomatoes (or some other troll, they all smell the same to me).

Nope, she has made a choice but unlike your *choice* to (allegedly) not eat sheep or cows, she can vocalise a reason why.

I'm sure whatever power is prohibiting you from answering such a simple question would forgive you if it was the truth?

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

<snip>

Strange, that link says it's grants that *pay* the people to do it?

Obscure statement 1.

Or not. A much kinder way than exploiting animals is to just let it rewild like it would have been before we turned up. Yes, ideally those people would just f*ck off and stop being a burden on others trying to have their subsistence life when the world won't support that number of people that way.

Or, we could stop the idiotic approach of considering sentient beings as food when we don't need to?

I didn't, the Countryfile report on what the government were doing did. Existing long term farmers are similar to existing long term carnists in that they are lest likely to be sufficiently forward thinking to be willing to change. They are 'more likely' to be 'stuck in their ways'.

Ah, you are now trying to conflate inconsiderate 'visitors' to the country with people choosing to live there.

It would be like saying 'bloody countryfolk driving their tractors / Series Landrovers on the public highways, causing all sorts delays to townies in proper cars and dropping their mud everywhere ... (that the taxpayer has to pay to clean up).'

Cheers, T i m

[Spike]

I told you in a previous post about how choices can be influenced, destroying the argument you were making about the issue. I knew you wouldn't understand it, but it had to be said, even though you are now going around the cycle yet again. Your description of your family sitting around the table (not necessarily literally) and saying to you "Well, *we've* gone vegan, what are *you* going to do?" suggests that in reality you had little freedom in the matter.

But more importantly, I take your attitude to freedom of choice, perhaps arising from that incident, as a driver for your evangelical anti-meat-eating veganism, as you want to impose *your* choices on other people. just as you tried to with your dog, until you found out this could lead to trouble. So I can see why you need to defeat the idea of freedom of choice. But it isn't going to work.