It was in yesterday's Times. Apparently they have poor bones and they are shorter than normal. I suppose the authorities should pick up on this. But it's like FGM, child abuse that's overlooked because a lot of people do it. However I don't suppose vegans are regarded as being above the law like certain other groups.
Bill
Not sure about the poor bones, I usually just spit them out. Being shorter though, now that might be a solution to the overpopulation problem, if we can just make people smaller using dietry means. Don't see how we're going to solve the problem otherwise. Yes, I know BIGGER is better... but just saying.
And you think this association means ... what, exactly?
Veganism is just another crackpot religion, hence the sermons we constantly get on this group about the subject
1) It means Bill is now going to get a bolloking from all the netcops for posting about veganism without marking it OT: 2) Bill doesn't care about any association, that wasn't why he posted. 3) Because Bill is so desperate to push his carnist agenda, he tries to link feeding a child a vegan diet (as approved by the BDA and ADA), with FGM, hoping it will sensationalise / link the two things. 4) Bill is obviously now suffering from the guilt created by his actions (killing and eating innocent and sentient creatures (like livestock)) with his morals that stops him killing and eating innocent and sentient creatures (like his dogs). 4) Bill didn't include any link or reference as if he did, people might also read things like:
"The number of vegans in Britain has quadrupled in four years to some
600,000, amid rising concerns over animal welfare and the environment."(So, human health is much more than just what people eat it also includes things the level of pollution they have to live in and how much food and water they have available).
"Lead author Professor Jonathan Wells, from UCL, said: 'We know that people are increasingly being drawn to plant-based diets for several reasons, including promoting animal welfare and reducing our impact on the climate.
Indeed, a global shift towards plant-based diets is now recognised to be crucial for preventing climate breakdown, and we strongly support this effort.
We found that vegan children had lower bone mass even after accounting for their smaller body and bone size. This means they may enter adolescence, a phase when bone-specific nutrient needs are higher, with a bone deficit already established.
If such deficits are caused by a diet that persists into adolescence, this might increase the risk of adverse bone outcomes later in life."
(*IF* such deficits ... *MIGHT* ...)
"However, on the positive side, the vegan children had 25 per cent lower levels of 'bad' LDL cholesterol and lower levels of body fat.
Co-author Dr Malgorzata Desmond said: 'We found the vegans had higher intakes of nutrients that indicated an 'unprocessed' type of plant
-based diet, which is in turn linked to lower body fat and better cardiovascular risk profile."
Anything has to be better than a diet of 'chicken nuggets' and chips.
Personally, I would rather my child was 3cm shorter at some arbitrary time in their life but live a longer life and not die of bowel cancer [1], heart disease way before they are old enough to possibly suffer the other non-life-threatening issues that *might* exist.
Quite.
The good thing though is that it shows that my discussions here aren't going un-considered, even by the carnists and if Bill ends up learning a bit more about veganism and *all* the facets it covers, that can only be a good thing (and not for me specifically of course, but certainly millions of innocent sentient creatures, the environment and human health).
Cheers, T i m
[1] Step daughter died at 39 of bowel cancer and loved her processed meats and was never a big consumer of fruit and veg.
BLM trumps VLM?
If he's anything like me he cares for his family and doesn't want his family is disadvantaged by force-feeding children a diet that will harm them.
Just because you feel guilt eating animals doesn't mean we do.
Try this one:
There is nothing wrong with veganism, or indeed any blind faith. It becomes wrong when pressure is applied through abusing or forcing others who don't conform. It then becomes fanaticism, aka crackpot cult/religion.
T i m does a great disservice to genuine vegans who follow their own personal beliefs without trying to impose them on others.
Aww bless. Ok, let's replace the word 'veganism' with 'not being cruel to and killing animals' and 'religion / beliefs' with 'fact' and see how you then sound. That's right, 'like a nutter'! ;-)
Advocacy, as happened to end slavery, to give women the vote, to end racism, more things I'm sure people like you preferred others had kept quiet about.
And that you have no obligation to read let alone reply to, unless your inability to refrain is the same as that from causing pain, suffering, exploitation and death to innocent animals of course?
And what about the pollution to the environment the livestock cause that affects *everyone*, I'm guessing you don't care about that either, or the fact that what we are doing re food isn't sustainable?
Or all the habitat loss leading to species loss, probably 'not your problem' either (other than you are causing it of course), till some animal you like to eat goes extinct of course.
Luckily more and more people *do* care about such things and are actually doing something about it, for the benefit of everyone (other than those making a living from the death and exploitation of animals of course).
Cheers, T i m
You like making choices for other sentient beings, don't you, especially those that can't answer back.
To which authority does one apply to have this choice enforced?
You forgot to mention habitat loss due to growing crops for vegans.
And they are not very good at stats.
If I was making stats up I would at least try to make them look credible.
I liked the bit:
Of course meat free doesn't mean vegan.
It is true that 82% of statistics are made up in the spot.
Ah yes, thanks, crops that yield more food than using the same land to feed livestock (directly or indirectly).
And we don't need the crap land to still be able to feed everyone, that can be re-wilded.
Cheers, T i m
But often extensive use of the soil for vegetable crops is destroying the soil structure. Where I'm currently staying I can see very high hillsides with fields growing grass and are full of sheep. I wonder what the state of this environment would be if the land was reallocated to just growing crops for vegan food.
a great many years ago, Prince Philip said that there were only 3 statistics that mattered and theyb were vital.
Something has always puzzled me about people who follow proscriptive diets (vegan, halal, kosher, etc).
If a such a person invites me to dinner, they will no doubt serve me their preferred type of food and I will probably enjoy it thoroughly.
On the other hand, if I offer return hospitality, I will be expected to research new recipes, shop for unfamiliar ingredients and stress over creating dishes I've never made before rather than relax in good company with food I'm accustomed to cooking and which reflects my way of life. If I don't do all of that, the chances are the diet-follower will be mortally offended and thus will end the friendship.
Hey, I like some vegan/kosher/halal dishes. Why can you not be broad minded enough to try some of mine, too?
(I feel I should add here that, of course, if a dinner guest has an allergy or other health condition which precludes certain foods, then I will do my utmost to ensure the offending item(s) has no place on the table. Nothing kills a dinner party quicker than killing a guest.)
It certainly is in the Amazon and all the other areas that are being cleared primarily to feed *livestock*.
Many of those environments have evolved over the years to *only* be self sufficient *because* of what grew there. Cut it all down and plant for animal feed and the soil is exhausted very quickly.
I wonder what was there before the grass? Chances are, trees, absorbing CO2, something we are going back to in many places.
It wouldn't be, we don't need to, it would be re-wilded.
And it's not 'vegan food', it's 'food' as everyone can eat it (and they have been for thousands of years).
Cheers, T i m
This is one of my biggest bugbears. The only thing stopping vegans being ?normal? guests is their inability to compromise. I?d have a lot more respect for folk on self imposed restrictive diets if they followed normal social codes and compromised when they?re guests.
Tim
In many cases it wouldn't economically feasible. Land used for sheep farming is usually difficult to grow crops on. It would simple revert to disused pasture.
Then of course more land would be required to farm plant food. Leading to more Amazonian rainforest felled for industrial processes making tofu.
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