Hi
Anyone know where I could find the above - Google seems to have been highjacked by these pesky 'shopping' sites that give lists of completely irrelevant suppliers.
I want to illuminate the back of a warehouse that suffers regular break ins. Normal PIR lights would simply be trashed. I found metal cages on CPC which might solve the problem but I wondered if they would interfere with the detectors?
Use separate detectors and put them up high?
Even so, would adding illumination really deter the miscreants or are you simply doing what the occupier wants to have?
On Sat, 19 May 2007 10:54:20 +0100, Andy Hall mused:
Or fit sodium lighting and do away with the useless halogens. We've fitted them in cages before and never had any real problems though, they stil work as well as they normally do.
I'd echo that, generally ensuring that there aren't things there to vandalise, decent security on the building and perimiter etc... is a decent deterrent. If the place looks tidy, well cared for, secure and such like it's not such an atteactive place to vandalise, usually.
Lurch wrote: Andy Hall >>>
What the occupier wants really. But we are both open to ideas.
It's a 'hair & nail' supplies company. They stock up market hair dryers, straighteners etc, all the sort of stuff that attracts the wrong people. It's on a local industrial estate which is fairly remote and the back of the units is completely unobserved.
First time just before Xmas they smashed in a fire door. I made a temporary repair on Xmas eve. Undetered they tried again, my repair held - so they demolished part of a brick wall.
Its really that desolate around the back. CCTV might help, but would that deter them? And would it help Plod?
In an industrial environment, PIR operated lights are mainly of value in that they will attract the attention of a patrolling guard. If there is no guard patrol, permanent lighting is a better deterrent. Low pressure sodium
18W SOX lamps in security light enclosures with dusk to dawn photocells are fairly readily available for this purpose.Permanent lighting can also be supplemented with CCTV cameras, either genuine remote monitored cameras or believable dummies. Unmonitored CCTV does not offer much advantage over good dummies. Unless you spend a lot of money, the recordings will not be of evidence quality and, even then, there is no guarantee that they will provide pictures of an identifiable person committing a criminal act. Simply showing that someone was around when a crime was committed is not sufficient evidence that they were involved.
However, the main deterrent to break-ins is good physical security. Fit any windows with security grilles - 20mm bars not more than 100mm apart and joined by cross-bars at 600mm intervals are considered to be effective against most attacks. Doors should be avoided if possible. If they have to be there, for example fire exits, they need to be reinforced with 10swg steel plate or protected by an external steel fire door security cover. They should also have secure locks for use when the building is not occupied.
If everything else fails, a final line of defence is a remotely monitored alarm system. Unmonitored alarms are rarely of any value, particularly on an industrial site. I will get a telephone call within 90 seconds of an alarm going off in one of my factories and normally the Police will have already carried out an external inspection of the unit when I arrive 10 minutes later.
Colin Bignell
Nightjar wrote;
Good point - I'll check to see if there is one.
Another good point. Dummy CCTV sounds a good idea.
No windows at the back, just a fire exit door, which did have a steel plate - they smashed the frame out! The steel cover sounds good.
Thanks Colin.
Separate detectors, and site them well (Hidden amongst plumbing is good). Vandals rarely bother to trash detectors that aren't obvious.
Then cages and strong front glasses over the lights themselves.
No, they work fine through the guards. A flue guard is sometimes about the right size for a PIR alone. Spiders on the guards can cause false triggering.
The proper position for a light and for a PIR controlling it are usually quite different anyway.
There are some quite interesting things you can do with lighting colour too, if your potential vandals are simply teenagers who are hanging around with nothing to do. Pink has been found to be a colour many dislike, because it's perceived as girly, and it highlights teenage acne.
I have a view that most vandals find the 'tools of their trade' very close to where the crime is committed. Does the estate have a policy of tidiness?
If you could find a way to trigger the lights, perhaps something like this ?
I think I'd start by making an assessment of the full costs of this vandalism. This should motivate your customer to spend a lot more money wth you.
Then I'd approach the police for advice. I know they do this free for householders, dont know re business premises, but I'd ask.
With the cost assessment done, you should have a budget for stuff like steel doors in steel frames, intruder paint, security cameras, etc.
Dont overlook low cost psychological methods as well. These dont catch criminals, but do often prevent a return attack. Examples would be camera flashes rigged to a PIR, and an extremely loud burglar alarm inside the building. I like the idea of those red smoke bombs too, dont know what they cost though.
NT
nightjar ... Unmonitored CCTV does not offer much advantage over good dummies. > Unless you spend a lot of money, the recordings will not be of > evidence quality
One aspect that CCTV recordings may help with is establishing the time of the attack - if it's always at the same time of night, and probably the same group of people, then it might be worth a few "security patrols"[1] at that time, which may be sufficient to cause a break in their routine and they'll go somewhere else.
Are there other businesses on the estate and are they targetted too? Could the whole estate get perimiter fenced and gated?
Owain
[1] people in hi-viz jackets driving past in their carOn Sat, 19 May 2007 11:34:39 +0100, "The Medway Handyman" mused:
I doubt it would deter them, it may help plod, but none of your cheap DIY crap would be worth bothering about, CCTV on a commercial, serious budget scale would, but only if plod actually bother acting on the footage presented to them.
The lights would maybe deter them slightly, but realistically if they're that determined then they're going in whatever there is there. I think physical security is the key here. Security smoke is also another option, even if they get in they can't do mutch if they can't see anything.
On Sat, 19 May 2007 11:50:42 +0100, "The Medway Handyman" mused:
Waste of time tbh.
A mate of mine has a unit and the he had the door steel plated. Someone accidentally swung a rather large RSJ into it, it dinted it a bit but it still held, couple of new bolts and that was that really.
Which they won't.
And even if they do, the police won't give a toss.
Agree with you 100% about price comparison sites. See if Coughtrie Lighting,
If they are willing to knock a hole in a brick wall, the only thing that is likely to help is remotely monitored CCTV. There are several security companies that offer it and the Police will respond quickly to a call from a CCTV command centre. Some companies will send their own security patrol instead of calling the Police.
Colin Bignell
On Sun, 20 May 2007 16:23:04 +0100, "nightjar" mused:
By some I assume you mean many.
Only if it's installed and maintained as a police response system. Just having a camera on the wall is not going to get monitored.
By several, I mean several.
I would consider that to be implicit in installation of a remotely monitored CCTV system installed by a security company.
Colin Bignell
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