UPVC Replacement Windows... Surely this cant be right?

Ive just had replacement UPVC windows and doors fitted throughout the house. We chose a local supplier/fitter based on price and recommendations. They weren't the cheapest - and even had Anglian come back and undercut their price.

Anyway, now they are fitted, I cant help think we've made an enormous mistake.

The Very large Patio door was replaced with French Doors. 2 Doors and

2 side panels. When the doors are pulled shut, the whole frame vibrates. The frame at the top and bottom physically move. The same applies on the Front door as well.

We had the guy back (unfortunately I wasnt there when he came) and he reckons the movement is prefectly normal and that its a perfect install. He is FENSA registered and I called to ask their advice. What a joke they are! I might as well of talked to the dog. Not interested and very unhelpful.

At the time, it was a toss up between them and Anglian. People over the road from me were very happy with their install. I spoke to them this morning and they said their doors have zero movement.

I was there when they fitted the French Doors. When it was offered up, there must have been over 2 inches spare at the top. My thought here is its been bad measuring and this has been the cause of this problem as they have packed it with "extensions".

Can anyone advise on this and is there a recourse apart from going direct to a fitter that just says his install is fine. (ie is there anyone I can get look at it that can say its fine or its a bad install?)

We also had replacement cladding installed. The old timber cladding was solid and no movement. The replacement looks fine, but without any pressure whatsoever, I can press the centre of the strips - and no doubt any further presure would see it fall out! This part wasnt realised when it was done.

Unfortunately, once they finished, they wanted payment straight away.

Reply to
guv
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... and let me guess.... you paid by cheque or cash....

Reply to
Andy Hall

Sounds like someone miss-measured.

5mm top and sides would have been more likely
Reply to
Robbo

Yes. Having said that, I have used extensions myself once before when fitting an undersized uPVC window (I won't admit to mis-measuring the size because I didn't - but it's a long, boring irrelevant story!). The ones I used were provided by the window manufacturer, and sort of slotted into the frame of the window, rather like a Lego brick. Certainly very firm, and my completed window was as solid as if it had been sized correctly.

But I don't know whether yours are the same. Whatever though; IIWY I'd certainly be expecting some cash back in my pocket for the obvious mismeasurement - leading to 2" less area glass and an ugly 2" thicker frame.

David

Reply to
Lobster

Personally I'd make them change it. If the measurement is wrong and it looks like crap, it's their issue and they should fix it. I might also look for cash compensation *as well*, but there's no excuse for poor materials and workmanship if a good price was paid.

Reply to
Andy Hall

I wished I had taken a photo when it was first offered up. He reckons I am mistaken. He says it was only 15mm for top and bottom inc (ie

30mm). There is absolutely no way that is true.

Not only that, but the frame at the bottom is obviously higher than it should be. I was told they were "low profile". Yeh right! its much higher than what I had!

But taking those issues asside......

Should the PVC frames at the top and the bottom phsyically move? I would suggest 5mm or maybe more is the estimate I would give. To me, it feels like if I gave it a big yank, I could start to force the frame out. I'm not going to try it - nor do Ithink in reality, that would happen - but thats how much give there is!

If it should be solid (or at least more solid.) Is there any recourse? As mentioned, he came back when I wasnt there adding further unsitely screws into the frame. If has made it less shakey - but to me, I cant see how it can be right its "fine" that it does move. I have had people see them now and they all think it doesnt seem to be correclty installed.

Reply to
guv

They are a trade body, not a consumer body.

A surveyor.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

Just fill all gaps with expanding foam. That will stop it moving.

My whole house (timber framed) shakes like a drum when someone shuts one of the heavy oak exterior doors.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I dont see how! Anyway - they have covered the gap at the top with UPVC that now has been sealed with silicon. Surely this is their job not mine?

But does the frame move? It just seems so flimsy!

Reply to
guv

And as such have guidelines on acceptable practice?

Whilst a surveyor can make a report, (at my expense), it isnt what I was hoping for in an answer!

Reply to
guv

Bad measuring but I would have thought you could easily firm up a 2" gap with extra fixings.

Reply to
Stuart Noble

================================ If you believe that there was 2"(+) gap at the top remove one of the extension pieces and confirm this by measuring. If you're correct then the frame is far too small for the aperture and you should demand a replacement. Foam filler is excellent but it isn't really intended for this size of gap. While you're doing the measuring check the bottom rail as well since you say it's too high. It's possible that they've tried to disguise the lack of height of the frame by packing up the bottom.

If you don't get a prompt replacement threaten legal action by 'Small claims' court.

Reply to
Cicero

I've come across this more than once. People ask me to fill cracks around patio doors & I point out the movement & tell them there is no point in filling it until they stop the movement.

IMO the problem is that the fitters don't want to fix through the top of the frame because of the lintel, which could cause them a problem.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

There are a number of independent window experts, for example

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. Although you will have to pay for a report, it will be sound evidence if you need to take the firm to court.

Reply to
Tony Bryer

Only with regards to fitting stuff that complies with building regs. Nothing to do with standard or competance of installation.

At your expense that you can claim as a cost in court (if it goes that far) or deduct from the bill. How did you pay? Cash, Credit Card, Cheque. Cash is a bit of nusiance, cheques can be stopped and the CC company is jointly liable with the trader.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

That certainly wasnt what any of the salesman that called said! they ALL claimed being FENSA registered gave you peace of mind that any problems would be put right!

Unfortunately it was cheque (Last Wednesday), so would have been presented on Thursday for sure!

Reply to
guv

Well that's probably true, but isn't the point that it should have been done properly to begin with. If adding bits didn't make an unacceptable difference to the appearance and was as strong, and had all the other properties, then fair enough, but it's not...

Reply to
Andy Hall

Oh, good grief. When will people burn their cheque books?? You've lost a significant piece of leverage in the form of a credit vehicle. If the company goes bust, you are an unsecured creditor with no other form of protection.

OK. Next steps are:

- Make photos with dates of all of the things in or likely to be in dispute.

- Identify the managing director of the company

- Write to him with details of the issues and copies of the photos. Make it clear that you do not consider the results satisfactory and would like everything corrected properly at his company's cost - i.e. no bits bodged in. Give him 7 days to respond making that clear and that you will allow another 7 days after that for the work to have been satisfactorily completed. Send the letter by Special Delivery (about £4 at the Post Office). Keep a copy.

- If the company attempts contact by phone note the details, but don't agree to anything unless they confirm in writing.

- If there is no written response after the 7 days, write again indicating that you will allow a further 7 days, after which you will consider taking further action including possible legal action.

- If there is still nothing forthcoming or messing around, then initiate a Small Claims action. This is not an expensive procedure and you can conduct it yourself.

Reply to
Andy Hall

What sort of guarantee (in writing) does this firm offer? You could get the firm's owner/managing director down, give him a list of the faults and insist that they are all remedied at no cost to you. If they don't respond then follow the recorded delivery letter route as advised. Is this firm a member of the Glass and Glazing Federation or similar scheme that has a conciliation service to resolve disputes between customers and member companies? If you want an independent professional survey/report then you will have to pay, but presumably you can recoup the cost as part of a small claim court action. It would be worth posting on uk.legal for advice on this. Trading Standards and Citizens Advice will also advise. Many solicitors offer a free initial interview to discuss legal options.

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may be other faults that you are not aware of. If a building surveyor/structural engineer confirms that the installation is unsatisfactory you will then need quotes from other companies for remedial work, the cost of this work and of the independent survey/report would be included in the small claim court action. If there is evidence of any damage to your property then your insurance company should be told.

Reply to
Codswallop

The first thing I would be doing is to ring the bank this morning and confirm if the cheque has cleared or not. If you paid Weds then it may have been put in on Thursday or even Friday. It is unlikely to have cleared over the weekend and you may be able to stop it. If they don't get paid then they will be more likely to listen to any concerns you have. Andy's advice is sound in use your credit card for payment if you get the opportunity. I have fitted large french doors with side panels. Yes they can flex due to there given size but usually overcome with fixings through the head of the frame. If they have had to pack it with frame extensions then the fixing is probably flexing as well assuming that they could be bothered to secure the head. As TNP said expanding foam is the answer and will remove ad flex. So in short, check on payment and then either get a new snug fitting frame or compo if you can live with the one you have got and get it foamed to remove the flex. I assume that there are no low fascia's on the outside and that the frame has not been deliberately made smaller so that the doors clear any possible obstructions?

Regards Legin

Reply to
legin

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