'Sagging' uPVC windows and doors

[Lobster]

I loathe uPVC windows and doors with a vengeance, but am stuck with them at present!

I have one window and one door, both of which have moved slightly; the window is a very heavy tilt-or-open job, which has obviously sagged under it's very heavy weight and the plethora of metal gizmos, rods and hinges all along the frame no longer mate up; result is that the window won't close. My parents have exactly the same trouble with one of theirs. I've tried removing the metalwork piecemeal to identify the problem and ascertain what's clashing; it seems most of it is, together with the plastic frame itself. It's hard to tell though because the profile of the frame and window hide what's going on when the window is (nearly) closed.

Because all the fittings are screwed into the plastic, there also seems no scope for moving them a bit, as I'd be able to do with a wooden window (pack up the old hole and drill a new one very close by).

The door has a similar problem; suspect it wasn't fitted properly in the first place, but here the lock keeps jamming shut - the Eurolock bolt seems to jam in the metal recess mounted on the door frame. Again, with a wooden door it would be a simple 30-min chiselling job to reposition the lock components a bit

Anyone got any experience with sorting these out?

Thanks David

[T i m]

I'm glad to see the back of all that painting, putty, rot, draughts, splitting etc ;-(

My 7 uPVC windows and 3 doors are all still fine 15 years later ..?

So, when a glased uPVC paneled window or door are 'glased' they should be 'heeled and toe'd' (placing of spacers between the dg panel and uPVC frame to prevent movement / sagging over time.

If this wasn't done when this stuff was installed than that could be some of your problem?

A pack of 100 bridging spacers can be bought for a few quid.

All the best ..

T i m

[T i m]

;-(

Ok, imagine a side hung uPVC window. The weight of the glass and it's movement within the frame (soft glazed if you will with the rubber beading) means that over time the frame will move arounf the glass causing the problems you describe (locks fouling etc).

What they are supposed to do when they glase these things is fit packing peices to to the diag corners of the frame (hing side, lower corner, away from hinge upper corner from memory) so that the glass is a snug fit within the frame but no distorting it. This means fitting different thicknes packing pieces just at those corners so the glass acts like the brace you see across 'five bar gates' (without this the gate will also sag).

So, you will need to something like this:

Remove the glazing beads (thin steel filler 'tool') Unglaze the opener (various ways for this) Pack the frame so it's true to the locks / frame etc Refit the glass Fit the packing (heel and toe) Re-fit the glasing beads.

Don't touch for another 25 years and enjoy a filler / painting free life! ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

[Lee]

The guys who installed our uPVC windows, said that the packing pieces also keep the edge of the sealed glass panel slightly clear of the frame which helps to stop the seal getting damaged.

Sort of makes sense ;)

Lee

[T i m]

That might help but I believe it's *normally* to ensure the glass is in the middle of the hole so you can't see the ally frame (within the sealed unit).

Let's be honest here. Lots of the DG installers are sub contractors and I'm not sure how much training they all have had for the job? The number of installs I have seen that have either been poorly fitted, poorly finished or both and I'm no DG installer!

I did just help a mate fit 8 uPVC windows (including 1 bay) and if I say so myself we made a very neat job of it. Try putting your spirit level up against the units you have had fitted by the 'pro's' .. you might be in for a shock!

All the best ..

T i m

[Lee]

I wasn't arguing with that ;) Just that the proper use of wedges, rather than *none*, may have the

*secondary* benefit of protecting the seal.

The guys who fitted ours weren't subcontractors, it was a small local company and they seemed to know what they were doing. None of the windows here have stuck or bowed, and no plastic trims on the inside either :)

As an aside, the total difference in price between getting the same spec windows fabricated by the local factory and DIYing them, and getting this company to fit and guarantee them was around £150.

It *really* wasn't worth getting the ladders out :)

Lee

[T i m]

Good ;-)

True, if there is any damp inside the frame (not the sealed unit) I suppose it might be better to not have the unit sitting in it? Also it helps air move arounf the plastic extrusion but all these are secondary to getting the module in the middle of the frame ;-)

Good (on both points and expecially the latter!) ;-)

Indeed .. not worth it *if* they do (did) a good job. The trouble is you wouldn't have know the answer to that till they were driving away in the van? ;-(

Indeed ... (we removed / fitted all my mates windows from the inside )

All the best ..

T i m

[Paper2002AD]

Isn't against building regs for uncertified fitters to install dg units? Fenestration or summat? Could cause trouble if re-selling the house

[tim]

Nope, you just have to get the certificate from somewhere else. Of course this will add cost (and inconvenience) so the indi installer will need to be quite a bit cheaper to make using him worthwhile

Only if you haven't got the certificate. No-one checks how you got it. (In fact it's such a generic thing, now that I know what it looks like, I could have printed it myself)

tim

[T i m]

On the job we did he paid to have some form of 'inspection' (on the units etc)?

T i m

[Huge]

So scan it and put it on the web, then.

[sparky]

Take a look at

I'm sure there is an excellent article on toeing & heeling there

[Dave Plowman]

I'd start by measuring the diagonals of the window opening - some installers seem rather too free with the expanding foam, and this might have caused the frame to distort.

[Lobster]

Oh, probably!

Thanks. I'll certainly look into this - where would you put them: within the hinge or something?

David

[Lobster]

What's all that about then?! I ask because I have just had a new window fitted (ie where there was formerly a solid wall) - yes, Tim I went for uPVC to match the others! The work was done by a jobbing builder, under the aegis of Building Control, who have fully approved it with no mention of any special regs.

David

[Lobster]

Thanks a lot; I'll have to give it a go. Bit nervous about it as I had to replace a sealed unit in another window recently (changing from frosted to clear glass) and the beading was a total nightmare to remove; ended up trashing it. The windows (Rehau) have internal beading only, rubber seals, and its only the beading holding the glass in place. Trouble is I can't find any replacement beading anywhere (Rehau deny all knowledge of it) and I'm a bit stuffed. I will probably end up having to reuse the knackered stuff, and it would be the same story with the sagged window in question. Give me good old putty, paint, wet rot etc any day!!

David