Any of you guys tried to install pre-hung doors when walls aren't level and plumb? What a pain in the ass. Installed 5 and they took forever. I have never seen a house this bad. Nothing is square or plumb and I get to install the kitchen cabinets too. Oh I can't wait!! I wonder if the framers even used a level?
Yeah. We just built a house and we are in the process of finishing it. Our framer actually did an exceptional job of keeping everything very straight and plumb.
Except once.
We had one entry closet door that was a little out of plumb on one side; and a little out in the opposite direction on the other side. And the damned thing was a narrow 20" door. We fought the thing with me on the inside of the tiny closet and the wife outside trying to get it workable. When I started trimming, I ended up removing it, rehanging it and modifying every bit of trim to make it work. Glad I didn't have to do that on every door.
RonB
Fortunately we did were renting but one house we lived in was the worst out of square house I ever lived in. The good thing was the lazy cat. He would lay on the floor for hours hit the ball up the floor and watch it roll back to him. After living in the house for several years we moved, to a house that was more square with the world.
The cat was frustrated for months because he would have to get up and chase his ball as it would not roll back to him.
10 years ago when we were house hunting I went to a building site to talk with a builder. It was all framed up. They had used warped, bowed and/or twisted studs. Sighting down a wall it went in and out like a snake. I called it to the attention of the builder. He said, "The sheet rock will pull it all straight". I thought Yeah, right.
It is the the painter's responsibility to make the framing, drywall and trim look good.
I can honestly say that I have never seen walls that are plumb or door openings that are square. I have done the prehung door thing many times on less than desirable walls and openings. Thank goodness the door openings are bigger than necessary, HUH?
You guys ever hear of using a persuader to move the bottom of the wall at the door openings? Often saves a lot of horsing around... even with rock hanging and taped it works pretty well. ;~)
John
hmmmm, not with trim and a wood floor already installed and the plate Ramset in. I swear some Illegal freakin Mexican Framed this house. I'm just glad they don't want Crown Molding, hahaha
These openings are 1/2" out from top to bottom. You know what that does to the door? Half of it is either to far in on the casing or sticking out from the casing. Then you have to reset the stop, its a mess.
RE: Subject
By definition a house is little more than a poorly built boat.
Lew
Ahhh, but how many of them are out of plumb/square from the get go and how many of them have shifted over time from incorrect installation or shrinkage/wood movement?
If only two things are messed up in a framing job it will be the master bedroom ceiling and the front entrance door framing.
basilisk
1/2" is pretty bad but there are some things you can try depending on the size and style of trim. As has been suggested, move the bottom of the wall if possible. If you can't do that, you can try to spread the problem around the door on all four corners. Lets say you're standing outside the door the door is closed and the top lock side of the door is hanging out 1/2" past the jamb. Push the top hinge side in 1/8" past the rock and pull the bottom hinge side toward you past the rock 1/8". With the door closed, now the door should only be hanging out 1/4" at the top. Now do the opposite to the lock side jamb. Pull the top 1/8" towards you and push the bottom of the lock side jamb in 1/8". Now the door should close against the stop. Although all four corners will be off, no corner will be off more than 1/8".
Basically that still makes it a pain to trim and if you are using 1x material it can still be quite difficult. If your jambs are beveled and the casing does have some relief cut, you should be able to handle the 1/8" without too much problem. If you are using mitered corners (with casing that has a detail) you'll have to adjust the angles since the casing will no longer be laying flat on the wall.
I feel your pain. Good luck.
Mike O.
Thanks for that detailed explanation of what I should do. The only problem I have with it is how do you hold the door frame when you're doing all this shifting? On one of them I just divided the difference on the lock side. The door at the top is sticking out a bit and in a bit at the bottom. I did take the stop off and reposition it. It looks alright, and I doubt anyone will notice. I already told the homeowner about the problem and he's aware of it and just told me to do the best I can.
Thanks
I can only hope its 2
Yeah, I see that quite often. AAMOF my last 2 prehung door job, presented the same problem. Remember, the casing moldings are not necessarily there to "pretty up" the door opening.
toss it in the back yard for a few days. Stick some tile under the correct corners and toss a few cinder blocks on top.
That should warp the door enough that it should look straight in the frame! :-)
-Nathan
You forgot the part where you spray water all over it everyday until it forms to the correct specifications.
I lived in a house like that for 30 years. The back wall of the carport was out of plumb 1.5 inches from top to bottom. When I enclosed the carport, I ripped 2x4's into long shims to have vertical studs for hanging the finish wall.
There was also some plumbing that repeatedly clogged - the drains had no slope.
Probably not too bad a job of building from people who were structurally illiterate - not knowing square, plumb, or level.
John
In the past decade, the Nashville area has had a housing boom, probably rivaled only by Las Vegas. I don't know if it's the fact that Nashville has become a sanctuary city for illegals and the State turns a blind eye to their hiring, or the houses are just going up too darn fast and builders don't care about quality or a combination of those factors, but I've run across some ridiculous gaffs in half million dollar homes around here.
A friend wanted to separate a second story (third, if you count the dug-out garage/basement at ground level) master suite into two bedrooms (as per the original home plans-- first owner left out the wall to make one huge suite). No big deal, I go in and build a simple 14-or-so foot stud wall and lift into place.
My helper and I lift the wall up and discover a gap you could fit a 2x4 in sideways at the top of the wall, where it t-bones the exterior load-bearing wall. That's right, the wall is leaning out at the top,
3-1/2 inches. You don't even need a 4' level to see something like that. I'm wondering how no one caught this.We go outside to look at the wall from the exterior... it's brick. I look straight up the wall, from the garage door opening, and can see each row of bricks is sitting out further than the next, by at least 1/8 inch. The wall looks like a little staircase with tiny steps going in reverse, up the entire wall.
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