If it's level and plumb, it must be square, right?

[DerbyDad03]

Why do we check for square?

Let's say I'm installing a window. I put the window in the rough opening, shim it up and grab my level.

It's plumb on both sides, and the top and bottom are level.

How could it *not* be square?

For it to be out of square, at least 1 of the 4 readings I took with my level would be off.

If the window were racked, then the sides wouldn't be plumb.

If one side was longer than the other, then the top wouldn't be level.

If the bottom was longer than the top, then one of the sides wouldn't be plumb.

I can't think of a scenario where both sides are plumb and the top and bottom are level but the window isn't square.

What's the point in checking for square?

[dpb]

DerbyDad03 wrote: ...

Sanity and helps ensures don't have bad level or misread it or, or, or, ...

--

[RicodJour]

It's the quickest way to check squareness. Your level could have a bad vial. Your eyeballs might not be square to the level in one position. There's no interpretation required. Lots of reasons.

R

[ransley]

I had a hack put in windows and sliders, after I paid him it rained and they leaked and he wouldnt come back. I called the window co, Anderson, and they said a rep could come out. The first thing he did was check square on the slider and told me it was out of spec. He said they allow up to 1/8" out of plumb,level, or square and that I had no warranty and should have my windows reset that failed. I see your point on level, but the rep first checked square with a tape measure as that is a measurement that can be used to fail or pass a warranty. He said I would be suprised how many fail. After seeing my hack work I know many are installed wrong and have no warranty from day 1.

[Oren]

If the frame is bowed in at the center? IOW, seeing "daylight" between the level and jambs/frame.

For correct operation of the window (warranty). No binding, "sticky" operation of sliders, etc.

It's hard to square an 8' door with a 6' level.

[Gordon Shumway]

Consider that two opposing sides have been shimmed too much and they are not straight. Consider that the bow toward the rough opening.

If you check with a level they would be level (or plumb) but the level would only contact in two places rather than the entire surface. This situation fulfills your parameters but the window would not be a square (or rectangle) because two of the sides would be curved.

Did I win?

Gordon Shumway

What color do Smurfs become when they hold their breath?

[Van Chocstraw]

It makes you look smart.

[Metspitzer]

Measure twice and cut once.

[JIMMIE]

I always measure the diagonals to make sure its square. For a prefab window they should be dead nuts on. Let's see, measure measure bump bump measure measure bump measure measure. Its that easy.

Jimmie

[Red Green]

Van Chocstraw wrote in news:xpGdnYzPMr4FF2HXnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

Winner! Best answer.

[F. Ghasted]

You don't wear a belt with your suspenders?

[Oren]

Some Andersen patio door frames are assembled on the floor at the job site. A " tape measure" check is made then for square. Trick is picking the frame up and not twist or not torque it, putting it into the RO.

Open a sash slightly - note the reveal between the frame and sash - top and bottom. How wide is that gap? If way off fix the window.

Hacks get paid by piece work.

[ransley]

I first got worried when I saw his level was only about a foot long, then I got more worried when he worked like he was on crack as the windows flew into place, after it rained I knew I really screwed up since I had just paid him and I had alot of leaks.

[Oren]

I've mentioned here before that if a window/door installer without numerous levels arrives - send him packing.

I would put my own window in before I turned a hack loose with a "foot long" level :-//

[Jules]

Measure six times, get different answers each time, cut randomly, make good with expanding foam...

;-)

[Jules]

At least they'll leak both ways, so once your house fills up you don't need to open the windows to let the water out again. Or something.

[Wayne Whitney]

Your tape measure is alot more accurate than your bubble level.

Wayne

[Oren]

Try these transom windows for install. (get them level across four windows).

pic:

No suspenders needed.

[RicodJour]

Level the bottom windows, then just use a spacer block - no big deal. Or use a Robolaser. I love the remote. Spinning lights make me snap out like in The Andromeda Strain. ;)

R

[DerbyDad03]

Measure with a micrometer

Mark with chalk

Cut with an Ax