i was under the impression that all (vinyl) double pane windows were
constructed using a gas such as argon between the panes. i need
to replace all of my old aluminum double pane windows, about half of
which have leaked and have interior fogging (condensation).
HOWEVER, one of the local companies here, uses a VACUUM
between the double panes, instead of ARGON.
my question is: wouldn't a vacuum be more likely to leak moisture
inside, over time, than a double pane window constructed using
an inert gas inside?
To an approximately, the diffusion of moisture or the filler gas or just
plain old air just depends on the relative concentration of the gas (vapor)
in the atmosphere compared to that inside the window.
A seal that can maintain a vacuum is less likely to permit significant
moisture than a seal that's barely "gud enuf" to keep the argon in and the
water vapor out. Older designs included some moisture absorbing stuff in
the metal channel around the perimeter so that any water vapor than gets in
will be absorbed before it can coat the inside of the window and be noticed.
I find myself questioning just how practical a true vacuum would be. With
a vacuum, the inside pressure is zero PSIA while the outside pressure is
about 15 PSIA. (That's POUNDS/sq it.) If your window is only 12" x 12"
there would be a TON of force pressing the two sheets together.
I suspect that your local company isn't giving you all the details.
It's not a true vacuum, but it is reduced pressure.
And the companies that do good argon units, its not "gud enuf" -
theirs are usually the higher quality stuff. Joe Blow can build an
atmospheric unit in his back room -
Joe Blow can build an argon filled unit in his back room just as easily.
There is nothing magic and no exotic equipment needed to purge the
window unit with argon gas. The only additional equipment needed vs. a
"vacuum" window is a cylinder of argon and a regulator / flowmeter.
Don't even think about wasting your money on a thermal unit without
argon fill. The incremental cost is negligible, and generally the
argon units outlast "vacuum" units by a significant amount -
particularly if they are "warm edge" or "thermal spacer" units with a
triple mastic seal.
I would just point out that argon fill in windows isn't used when the installed
elevation is somewhere above 5000' or so... Furthermore, the use of Argon in
warm climates is not of much value. Unfortunately, we don't all live above the
49th parallel :)
Nor do I. Nor do about 80% of canadians.
Argon fill is still good in warm climates - you DO air condition,
don't you? The difference in temperature between the inside and
outside is about the same in Phoenix as it is in Toronto or Kitchener.
On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:58:11 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Cost of Argon is pennies on the dollar. In the Mojave Desert the
little cost is worth it.
Does argon gas in a window refract sun light in the summer, out of the
house and keep heat in the house in winter?
No, but it insulates better than air.
My 8 new site-built low-mass sunspace "windows" are 4'-wide x 16'-tall
twin layers of $1/ft^2 10-mil HP92W polycarbonate film on flat 1x3 frames
with 3M 4432 double-sided vinyl tape and 1/8"x3/4" painted steel cap strips
and silicone caulk at the corners.
Each panel has 2 1/8" ID polyethylene tubes at the bottom. They are
inflated in series with DOT push tubing couplers (truck parts) to 0.15" of
water with dry air from a $10 12V tire compressor (PV-powered, of course)
in a boxful of Tyvek clay desiccant bags, with a Dwyer 1710-0 pressure
switch, for less wrinkling and wind fatigue.
It looks like they don't leak at all (we tested them with a soap bubble
solution.) If the compressor never runs again, we plan to fill them with
I have generic non argon that 10% are bad in 3 years. I have Pella and
Anderson low E argon that are fine with a 20 yr warranty. I have seen
at HD lifetime warranty glass. But a warranty can be void from day one
if windows are not Plumb, Level and Square installed, Pella and
Anderson allow 1/8" tolerance. I had two installed wrong and out of
warranty before I paid the guy. Get a good warranty, check plumb,
level and square Before you pay the guy. If you have a question call
the window maker, I had a rep sent out. I would opt for Low E argon.
www.energystar.gov has window info, research before you buy.
On Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:54:06 PM UTC-6, nucleus wrote:
1st let's discuss the company that states it has a vacuum glass! That's false, no company has perfected it. A company in Pewaukee Wisconsin is close but they don't expect anything until 2018.
2nd if vacuum exist,than no condensation at all because there's no air to condense. To your point about leaking,this is why it's taking so long to perfect,and my guess is they'll end up placing a visual device to let you know when the vac has left.
On 6/10/2014 11:56 PM, email@example.com wrote:
Leakage is certainly an issue...but force is another.
14.7 psi doesn't sound like much until you figger that it takes less than
a 12" x 12" pane to experience a TON of force.
Once you start putting internal supports, buyers start to object.
On 6/11/2014 2:56 AM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Would that be an upright vacuum, or a canister vac? And would they need
to run power lines to each window for the vacuum?
And it's been since Feb 12, 2009, maybe now the windows have solar power
vac, and don't need electricity?
The glass in a regular unit would break. I can see the temperature
condition of argon filled panes. The glass either contracts inward or goes
out. You can see that in the reflection from outside the house.
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