Strong acid for toilets

[Darren Clarke]

I have a thick limescale problem that domestic cleaners aren't shifting so I'd like to use one of the more heavy duty cleaners, but I don't know which one to buy or how to use it.

Can I buy them in Wickes, how much do they cost, do I need to remove the water from the bowl first, how long do I leave it soak for and do I need to neutralise the acid before flushing? The bulk of it is under the waterline (around the bend) but there's also a thin coating around the rim and I think a lot is built up under it because a couple of times I've tried using the shower head to blast hot and cold water under the rim and this has made big chunks of limescale crack and fall off.

I imagine, like domestic cleaning products, some brands are good and others are very poor, so which should I get? If they're expensive, would i be just as good to pour down a cheap bottle of Happy Shopper vinegar and leave it overnight?

[Steve Firth]

A good heavy duty descaler is Fernox Descaler, it's sold at Homebase among other places and is intended for descaling of boiler systems and pipework and for heavy duty industrial and domestic descaling. You really don't need an aggressive acid such as hydrochloric (muriatic) acid which is available from some suppliers. Sulphamic acid which is the acid used in the majority of domestic descalers is perfectly adequate.

Fernox Descaler is sulphamic acid crystals with a corrosion inhibitor and an indicator dye to tell you when the acid has been used up. It coems in a large tub and has instructions on the side of the tub. In general, wear eye protection when using the descaler and rubber or plastic gloves as a sensible precaution.

Vinegar won't do much good, not even if you obtain a higher strength solution of acetic acid, and the fumes even from household vinegar will make it unpleasant to use.

Read the instructions carefully before use and in particular note the requirement to add the crystals to water and not the other way around. You'll need a large plastic jug and plastic or wooden spoon for mixing, and it's best to dissolve the crystals in lukewarm water.

I tend to keep an old domestic descaler bottle and refill it with Fernox Descaler solution, because it's a fraction of the price of the stuff in supermarkets which is mostly water, perfume and a trace of sulphamic acid and detergent.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Get some brick acid. 5 quid for 5 liters. HCL at 30% IIRC

Be careful on chrome tho.

Sulphuric is better still allegedly.

However almost any acid works given time. A regular addition of something to the cistern is a good start for maintenance.

The round the bend stuff is actually easy. Simply pour a cupful of acid in last thing at night for a while.

The under the rim is less so, as it tends to dry up. The gel type loo cleaners are not bad..expensive though.

[John Stumbles]

Another good one is Kilrock-k (inhibited formic acid). It goes through limescale like a dose of salts but the fumes are unpleasant so don't hang around after adding it.

[noelogara]

your problem is that you didnt remove the water from the toilet pan. Buy yourself a little plastic siphon/pump for about one pound in a diy shop or perhaps a car accessory shop. Its a little plastic flexible red cylinder that you squeeze in your hand with two pipes from it. One pipe sucks the water from the pan and the other releases it into a container.

once you have taken all the water from the pan and you can feel the fresh air coming up from the sewer, pour any acid descaler into the pan and rub it all over the affected areas with a brush. Leave for ten or fifteen minutes and then scrape all the remaining lime away using a screwdriver or something like that. Get it all off using the acid before you flush it out or you will be repeating the procedure.

Thats the secret. The water in the pan was diluting your chemicals before.

[mike]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

he water from the pan and

Not exactly how I'd describe it! :o)

mike

[meow2222]

I'd use brick acid primarily because, being 30% HCl, it will eat up the organic matter as well as the scale. Usually you get the 2 mixed together, and anything that eats only one component wont be effective. Also HCl is so easy to use: shove the water a couple of time with the bogbrush to get the level downa bit, add HCl and leave overnight. Thats it.

NEVER mix HCl with bleach, and be careful to keep it off skin and eyes, it is aggressive. Dont use HCl on metal, it will corride it on contact.

NT

[Kev]

I use the sort of syphon that is sold to clean out aquariums. Sounds similar but if you have problems finding one go to a tropilcal fish shop.

Kevin

[mike]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I slide a glass or two of water in gently after adding acid, to get the level up to where it gets to the ring of scale that forms round the surface- or is that only on my bog?

mike

[chris French]

You are using an acid containing descaling product aren't you? most toilet cleaners aren't AFAICS

I've got a couple of bottles of supermarket own brand Toilet cleaner/descaler (Waitrose and Tesco). Both contain Hydrochloric Acid

I know that I could got and get something cheaper from a BM/plumbers merchants, but I have to get round to it. It's not like we use loads of the stuff.

[chris French]

In message , mike writes

Clean it more often and it'll be less likely to form.....

We have 3 toilets in the house, one tends not to get used because of it's location. It can easily develop a scale ring as the water evaporates. Making the effort to use it more frequently (and clean it of course) has removed the problem

[meow2222]

If your regular cleaner is a lime scale removing acidic type, no noticeable scale should form.

NT

[mike]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

My feeling is that when I flush, there's some wave motion round the U bend before it settles, that leaves the water inevitibaley below the high water mark when it settles, andit's here the tidemark forms.

I guess if I cleaned a lot more often it wouldn't happen...

mike

[Suz]

I use the Tesco one and think it is really quite good. 74p for a 750ml bottle.

[meow2222]

those are good for light descaling, but too weak to deal with serious encrustation. I know this from cleaning toilets left by others, not my own :)

NT

[Christian McArdle]

I've always found them slow and expensive. Basically, half a bottle of supermarket descaler will get most of it off if left overnight.

By contrast, a small slug of brick acid will do an excellent job in about

5-10 minutes.

Christian.

[Christian McArdle]

I expect this depends on the water and the finish to the toilet. Our water softener is currently out of commission. Within a week, even Guantanamo Bay wouldn't have inflicted our toilet on their prisoners.

Christian.