That's nonsense, most people prefer traditional systems, you are mixing
up what you're selling, with what people want (they are not necessarily
the same thing) your logic is that people won't buy a property with an
"inadequate" heating system which, again, is nonsense. People buy houses
all the time with inadequate or unsuitable something or other, you
parcel your properties up to sell, fair enough but don't mistake that
for an approval that you have hit on a perfect product, all you've done
is packaged it properly. Look at Gerald Ratner, none of his customers
realised he sold crap until he told them.
Again its packaging and well done too you for putting together something
Indeed. However, pillar taps are not necessarily cheap. Just because the
cheapest taps are some horrible 3.99 plastic compression washer
monstrosities, doesn't mean that all separate taps are like this.
I actually prefer having separate taps in a basin. I believe it looks more
appropriate in the period properties I prefer to frequent. However, the
ideal installation costs more than a single monobloc mixer of similar
quality, as a basin really benefits from a genuine cold tap (mains drinking
water) and a TMV mixed 40C hot tap for shaving/hand washing/etc.
Now you are changing your goal posts, first you talked of types of
tap, now you seem to be talking about the 'cosmetic design' of taps -
sound like you have been taking lessons in being a simpleton from
On 16 Sep 2005 03:15:12 -0700, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
This is complete nonsense.
You are gullible to the marketing wiles of form over function - a
marketeer's dream. Do you buy Lottery tickets?
It seems that you are trying address markets with an inappropriate mix
If you are trying to go for the market where appearance and *apparent*
function is the key, you might as well go for fancy gold mixer taps,
full body showers and all the rest of it and the cheapest combi you
can buy. You could copy the manufacturers of such boilers and put
into the estate agent spec that there is a two-bathroom hot water
Don't bother about it not working properly.
There is little point in going for products such as the ACV because if
you just want to be able to be able to use the phrase "stainless
steel" as a selling point, there are cheaper ways to do it.
Then you have more money to spend on visual frippery like fancy gold
Alternatively, if you are trying to go for the market where function
matters, you would be much better off going for a proper storage or
thermal store system using a stainless steel heat exchanger or a
boiler using a stainless steel heat exchanger. I suspect that this
is a minority part of the market, however.
Certainly a product like ACV will do a better job than a cheap and
nasty 11lpm combi. But what's the point? You can claim a two
bathroom solution from almost any piece of crap just by cutting and
pasting the brochures.
On the other hand, it falls way short of a proper storage solution of
either stored HW or a sensible capacity thermal store. Therefore you
lose out both ways. You are spending more than needed to provide a
cosmetic marketing solution but are falling short of doing the job
You're talking rubbish. It might well do for a short time until its
(small) store is exhausted but most people think a combi can deliver its
quoted output for ever. And many are sadly disappointed by such devices.
That's the idea which appeals with an combi, but of course doesn't
So it will fill *my* bath in the same time?
The mixer tap on my bath is designed for 22mm pipes. IE, 3/4 inch. If you
want to use unsuitable taps that's your business..
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *
Dave Plowman email@example.com London SW
It depends on how effective your 'stored' arragements are but if you took
a typical 20 litre/min of mixed water (a correctly installed unvented
system might well give twice that). The you'd be looking at around 50kW
more or less depending on the inlet water temp.
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Thanks Ed. That's quite some power for sure. I was concerned about
that. So I would be needing a very big gas combi or a three-phase
supply to drive some fancy, semi-industrial, Stiebel-Eltron kind of
There are stored water combis. They have everything in one box with
some stored water inside. You don't get too concerned about the
innards. The ACV Heatmaster will deliver 38 litres per minute and is
only 35 KW. The domestic meter will deliver around 60 KW. 35KW is just
over half of the meter capacity, so just ticking over. The Powermax,
Gledhill and Viessmann both have high flowrates as well.
The Japanese Rinnai multi points have high flowrates with the downside
of no CH. I am seriously in the market for one of these.
As far as I interpret the figures it is saying (at delta 35):
38lpm for 10 minutes from full store to depleted.
18lpm for 60 minutes from full store to depleted.
With a 37 minute recovery.
In which case, I would conclude (and from the casing dimensions) that it has
a very sizeable store. Assuming it is essentially a heatbank, I'd guess
(10*(38-15)) * (35 / 70) = 115L (assuming heat store at 75C, incoming mains
at 5C), plus a few litres for inefficiency, which is essentially a standard
450x900 cylinder. Indeed, it sounds so like it, it probably is it.
The only spoiler is the quoted 37 minute recovery. The 23lpm (38-15) delta
35 water should only take 23*10/15 minutes to recover, which is just under
16 minutes, although it might just be to cover a slow ramping down of the
recovery rate towards the end, which might suggest an indirect coil method
If it is an unvented cylinder without TMV at 60C, then I make the size
(10*(38-15)) * (35 / 55) = 146L plus a bit.
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