Straw Poll "Are you satisfied with hot water from a combi boiler"


:::Jerry:::: wrote:

    Sorry. You're right!!
    Regards     Capitol
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flatulence wrote in message wrote:

You were told 50% use tanks and cylinders. You are making things up again.

Any figures to back this up, or is it just normal senile blabber.
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snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com writes

That's nonsense, most people prefer traditional systems, you are mixing up what you're selling, with what people want (they are not necessarily the same thing) your logic is that people won't buy a property with an "inadequate" heating system which, again, is nonsense. People buy houses all the time with inadequate or unsuitable something or other, you parcel your properties up to sell, fair enough but don't mistake that for an approval that you have hit on a perfect product, all you've done is packaged it properly. Look at Gerald Ratner, none of his customers realised he sold crap until he told them.

Again its packaging and well done too you for putting together something that sells.

and selling
--
David

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snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com wrote:

... the sort you can't turn on and off with your toes?
Owain
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snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com wrote:

There is no shortage of cheap contractor mixer taps available.
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Richard Conway wrote:

They look cheap too. Having a top quality bath and tiles and then fitting cheap taps is like making a Rolls Royce and fitting cheap plastic seats.
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Indeed. However, pillar taps are not necessarily cheap. Just because the cheapest taps are some horrible 3.99 plastic compression washer monstrosities, doesn't mean that all separate taps are like this.
I actually prefer having separate taps in a basin. I believe it looks more appropriate in the period properties I prefer to frequent. However, the ideal installation costs more than a single monobloc mixer of similar quality, as a basin really benefits from a genuine cold tap (mains drinking water) and a TMV mixed 40C hot tap for shaving/hand washing/etc.
Christian.
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mixer
a
Now you are changing your goal posts, first you talked of types of tap, now you seem to be talking about the 'cosmetic design' of taps - sound like you have been taking lessons in being a simpleton from IMM....
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On 16 Sep 2005 03:15:12 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com wrote:

This is complete nonsense.
You are gullible to the marketing wiles of form over function - a marketeer's dream. Do you buy Lottery tickets?
It seems that you are trying address markets with an inappropriate mix of products.
If you are trying to go for the market where appearance and *apparent* function is the key, you might as well go for fancy gold mixer taps, full body showers and all the rest of it and the cheapest combi you can buy. You could copy the manufacturers of such boilers and put into the estate agent spec that there is a two-bathroom hot water system.
Don't bother about it not working properly.
There is little point in going for products such as the ACV because if you just want to be able to be able to use the phrase "stainless steel" as a selling point, there are cheaper ways to do it. Then you have more money to spend on visual frippery like fancy gold mixer taps.
Alternatively, if you are trying to go for the market where function matters, you would be much better off going for a proper storage or thermal store system using a stainless steel heat exchanger or a boiler using a stainless steel heat exchanger. I suspect that this is a minority part of the market, however.
Certainly a product like ACV will do a better job than a cheap and nasty 11lpm combi. But what's the point? You can claim a two bathroom solution from almost any piece of crap just by cutting and pasting the brochures.
On the other hand, it falls way short of a proper storage solution of either stored HW or a sensible capacity thermal store. Therefore you lose out both ways. You are spending more than needed to provide a cosmetic marketing solution but are falling short of doing the job properly.
--

.andy

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Andy Hall wrote:

You really are confused.

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You're talking rubbish. It might well do for a short time until its (small) store is exhausted but most people think a combi can deliver its quoted output for ever. And many are sadly disappointed by such devices. That's the idea which appeals with an combi, but of course doesn't happen.

So it will fill *my* bath in the same time?

The mixer tap on my bath is designed for 22mm pipes. IE, 3/4 inch. If you want to use unsuitable taps that's your business..
--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Out of curiosity could you take a guess at how many kW of combi boiler power would be required to fill a bath at the same rate as a stored hot water system?
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It would depend on the stored system, as some can be very poor.
--
*If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:34:17 +0100, Peter wrote:

It depends on how effective your 'stored' arragements are but if you took a typical 20 litre/min of mixed water (a correctly installed unvented system might well give twice that). The you'd be looking at around 50kW more or less depending on the inlet water temp.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
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Thanks Ed. That's quite some power for sure. I was concerned about that. So I would be needing a very big gas combi or a three-phase supply to drive some fancy, semi-industrial, Stiebel-Eltron kind of electric device.
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Peter wrote:

Peter,
There are stored water combis. They have everything in one box with some stored water inside. You don't get too concerned about the innards. The ACV Heatmaster will deliver 38 litres per minute and is only 35 KW. The domestic meter will deliver around 60 KW. 35KW is just over half of the meter capacity, so just ticking over. The Powermax, Gledhill and Viessmann both have high flowrates as well.
The Japanese Rinnai multi points have high flowrates with the downside of no CH. I am seriously in the market for one of these.
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On 15 Sep 2005 16:00:03 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com wrote:

You should be.

It will do that for an unspecified short time. Refer to other post.

For a short period. It is not possible to get a quart from a pint pot.

I expect that the marketing guy is rubbing his hands with glee.
--

.andy

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Andy Hall wrote:

I am only interested in what the combi delivers in flowrates. How it works inside is only of passive interest.

Please do refer to my other post. The time is not unspecified, it is clearly 10 minutes. It will fill a 380 litre bath in 10 minutes and a normal bath in a few minutes.

The Powermax, Gledhill and Viessmann are all two bathroom models, and then drop down to basic low flow continuously. The high flows are enough to fill baths and have two simultaneous showers.

He should be as they are the biggest seller in the world. I'm off to Travis Perkins now.

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On 16 Sep 2005 03:29:53 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com wrote:

I suppose that that would be true in the small time property speculation market.

That is not what they explicitly say in the spec.
They give the rate per 10 minutes which is not the same and it cannot be continuous.

There is no meaning in the expression "two bathroom model". Without explicit specs there is nothing to compare.

Does dIMM work there?
--

.andy

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As far as I interpret the figures it is saying (at delta 35):
38lpm for 10 minutes from full store to depleted. 18lpm for 60 minutes from full store to depleted. 15lpm continuous.
With a 37 minute recovery.
In which case, I would conclude (and from the casing dimensions) that it has a very sizeable store. Assuming it is essentially a heatbank, I'd guess (10*(38-15)) * (35 / 70) = 115L (assuming heat store at 75C, incoming mains at 5C), plus a few litres for inefficiency, which is essentially a standard 450x900 cylinder. Indeed, it sounds so like it, it probably is it.
The only spoiler is the quoted 37 minute recovery. The 23lpm (38-15) delta 35 water should only take 23*10/15 minutes to recover, which is just under 16 minutes, although it might just be to cover a slow ramping down of the recovery rate towards the end, which might suggest an indirect coil method of heating.
If it is an unvented cylinder without TMV at 60C, then I make the size (10*(38-15)) * (35 / 55) = 146L plus a bit.
Christian.
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