SOT: Which car to use in snow?

On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 10:54:44 +0000, The Other Mike wrote:

4WD

would

Diffs are funny things, multiple diffs are just plain weird.
In the below:
"traction" - Wheel is not slipping/spinning. "drive" - Abilty to move.
I'm about 85% certain this is what happens with various drive and diff lock arrangements:
2WD un locked diff, one wheel loses traction, the other stays still, no drive.
2WD locked diff, both wheels are locked together and rotate at the same speed. If one loses traction, hopefully the other will still have traction and you'll have drive.
4WD un locked diffs. One wheel loses traction, you lose traction for that axle. The other axle still has drive.
4WD locked center diff. Both axles are locked and rotate at the same speed, note axle not wheel. A single wheel can lose traction and the other three wheels retain drive. Both wheels on the same axle can lose traction the other axle retains drive. If diagonal wheels loose traction, you loose drive at the other two wheels.
4WD center and axle diffs locked. Everything (axles and wheels) goes round at the same speed, wether any given wheel has traction or not. This can give you one wheel drive...
With a diff locked there is a risk of "transmission wind up" that can lead to broken half shafts or stripped diff gears. You should not lock diffs unless the surface is slippy enough to allow the wheels to rotate at different speeds, as they must do, as you go around corners.
--
Cheers
Dave.
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Agreed

Agreed That is why axle diff lock is usually more effective than traction control.

Not if centre diff is unlocked. All torque goes to spinning wheel

Correct

Nope. The wheels on the other axle retain drive. What you say only applies if axles diffs are also locked.

Correct

Known as being cross axled. An axle diff lock solves the this problem

Very true!! The suppliers of my axle diff locks included hardened half shafts - and it was the wheel studs which sheared.
Crap LRs - the light may be out but the lock might still engaged (-:
--
bert

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On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 21:26:41 +0000, bert wrote:

for

This is one of the weird bits. Doesn't the stationary wheel with traction but no drive limit the rotation of the input shaft to that axles diff?

same

Again related to the weird behaviour with traction but no drive wheels.
I shall have to find my Lego Technik model and have a play again.

Center diff lock light? IIRC the lock is a dog clutch and can stick, particulary if there is any transmission wind up. Always worth driving straight for a few tens of yards and then backwards and forwards a few times after when disengaging.
--
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Dave.
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There's a light on the dash which mostly gives the accurate reflection of when the centre diff is locked. The gear lever may be in the unlocked position but the diff may still be locked.

Indeed.
--
bert

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Other way round One wheel spin 3 standing still.
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Next best thing a Daf with independent gearing on the rear drive wheels.

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On 11/01/2018 10:50, Another John wrote:

If it is steep neither. I have noticed that in for example ski resorts the roads are never that steep, and that winter tyres fitted to hire cars have been all that I need. Last year I failed to make a right turn on a local road because my car would not slow down. This year I have decided to use winter tyres, on a separate set of rims. I plan to keep the car for more than 10 years - if I last that long.
--
Michael Chare

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On 11/01/18 10:50, Another John wrote:

little thin ones. And AWD or 4WD

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Obviously the yeti if it’s the 4WD version.

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On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 10:50:28 +0000, Another John wrote:

Best car in snow I've driven was a Moggie Minor van. Very light, rear wheel drive and narrow tyres which dug in. Sailed past bigger cars trying to get up hills.
I had a set of snow chains for the Peugeot 504 Estate and with them on it was marvellous in snow. A lot of satisfaction gained from pulling a Volvo Estate out of a ditch. However they took a long time to get on and off. On snow you could do 50 mph and on tarmac 20 mph. I only needed them for the last couple of miles because we lived on the side of a steep hill and once it snowed you couldn't get in or out in an average car.
Pain in the arse having to stop as soon as you hit the main road to take them off again. Especially kneeling in the slush with your hands freezing.
I've just fitted some Nokian all weather tyres to the VW Touareg in anticipation of a harsh winter but haven't needed them yet. The main thing seems to be the tread pattern, and the fact that it goes around the edge of the tyre towards the sidewall so there is more grip once the tyre sinks into the sticky.
You might look at getting narrower tyres for the Panda because hopefully they would be quite cheap.
Cheers
Dave R
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<snip> >Best car in snow I've driven was a Moggie Minor van.

Funny, I've just said the same elsewhere. ;-)

There weren't many other cars (or hills) about the time I took the van for a play in the proper snow so I couldn't really compare.
I did see a big 4x4 (possibly a RR) beach itself on the central reservation when trying to do a U turn on a blocked dual carriageway. ;-)
<snip>
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On Thursday, 11 January 2018 10:50:31 UTC, Another John wrote:

I can't answer your specific question, but I do recommend a watch of the ex cellent test that AutoExpress did to evaluate the effect of winter tyres. They took a couple of Ford Kugas (one 2WD and one 4WD) up an indoor ski slo pe, with a variety of different tyres.

https://youtu.be/mfuE00qdhLA

https://youtu.be/mfuE00qdhLA

You may be surprised at the result.
David
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On 12/01/18 12:59, David wrote:

well yes, it shows the Ford Kuga 4WD to be a heap of shit
Point taken about winter tyres BUT my freelander does better than that on summer tyres, in snow

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On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 13:10:05 +0000, The Natural Philosopher

BIL took us in his Disco to an off-road event in Abingdon a few years ago. This wasn't us but this was the track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6f5evm6ZI8

At the gate there was a sign that said 'No Freelanders' ;-)
There were all sorts of (4x4) vehicles going round, possibly including Freelanders so it may have just been an 'in joke'?
We didn't get stuck once (2L auto, no difflocks, stock tyres) but we did ground the towbar out a couple of times.
We also did the mud splash at the end and it actually covered the bonnet and was up to the door handles. ;-)
Nephew insisted they just cleaned off the lights and number plates and BIL had to leave it like that for a couple of weeks. ;-)
The real shame was that I believe that even was the first and last time it was ever really taken off road (in his ownership at least). ;-(
Cheers, T i m
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Not really Consistent with what has already been said on here.
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bert

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