SOT: Which car to use in snow?

[bert]

Defender has better axle articulation so with similar tyres would be as good as or better than Series III

[bert]

And always remember stopping is harder than starting :-)

[bert]

It's what the Icelanders do when driving on snow.

[bert]

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

They do actually get a lot of snow in parts of Italy. It's called the Alps.

[bert]

I've seen a number of 4x4s in trouble because the drivers hadn't a f****** clue how to drive them.

[bert]

Depends on the depth of the snow - and tread pattern is more important. For many years Land rover kept narrow tyres on their workhorses on the basis that they would dig down into mud or snow and hit firm ground. Eventually they capitulated and went from 7-50s to 235 x85s. But eventually the best tyre is the right one for the conditions you are experiencing. Everything else is a compromise.

To be avoided - the snow when compressed melts then turns to ice. Virgin snow is better.

That can happen at any time - Have been stuck in a LR up on the Pennine moors a few times.

Shovel and bag of salt/sand.

Generally true. Bag of sand in the back of a RWD does help.

I had a LR with front and rear axle diff locks. Weight transfer on a

*steep* incline rendered the front one virtually useless.

Sounds a bit iffy :-)

[bert]

In article , The Other Mike writes

LOL

[bert]

Next best thing a Daf with independent gearing on the rear drive wheels.

In article , Brian Gaff writes

[bert]

In article , NY writes

A 4x4 without lockable diffs or some form of traction control would rapidly turn into a one wheel drive. ISTR ambulances are like that. Required for better grip at speed rather than getting through snow. BICBW

[Steve Walker]

I have a set, but have never needed them.

I only bought them because we had some unusually heavy snow here and reports of it in Northern France and as we were heading there a couple of days later and would be out on small, hilly, country roads, miles from anywhere and towing a trailer, it seemed a good plan to have something to try and get us out of the "valleys" if necessary. As it happened, the snow melted before we got there two days later.

SteveW

[Steve Walker]

Some people do it for fun ...

SteveW

[David]

Best car in snow I've driven was a Moggie Minor van. Very light, rear wheel drive and narrow tyres which dug in. Sailed past bigger cars trying to get up hills.

I had a set of snow chains for the Peugeot 504 Estate and with them on it was marvellous in snow. A lot of satisfaction gained from pulling a Volvo Estate out of a ditch. However they took a long time to get on and off. On snow you could do 50 mph and on tarmac 20 mph. I only needed them for the last couple of miles because we lived on the side of a steep hill and once it snowed you couldn't get in or out in an average car.

Pain in the arse having to stop as soon as you hit the main road to take them off again. Especially kneeling in the slush with your hands freezing.

I've just fitted some Nokian all weather tyres to the VW Touareg in anticipation of a harsh winter but haven't needed them yet. The main thing seems to be the tread pattern, and the fact that it goes around the edge of the tyre towards the sidewall so there is more grip once the tyre sinks into the sticky.

You might look at getting narrower tyres for the Panda because hopefully they would be quite cheap.

Cheers

Dave R

[NY]

4x4 SUVs advertise that they normally run as FWD and only engage the RWD as well when it is needed (when the front wheels start to turn faster that the rear, implying that they are slipping). I presume that as well as engaging the rear wheels, they also lock the three diffs, otherwise, as you say, they turn into a 1WD :-)

I've noticed that our Honda CRV emits a foul burnt-cabbage stench (as if it's farted!) if I have to do a hill start on a steep gradient. I wonder whether this is a stenching agent built into the linkage that engages 4WD mode, to indicate when it has been engaged and a significant load has been transmitted, as opposed to on the level on snow (*). I've only had it happen a couple of times - once was on a steep hill where I'd had to go close to a verge (though on mud on the road rather than on the verge itself) when I met a car on a narrow road and then had to set off; the other time was on good tarmac when I stopped at a junction on a hill and then had to set off, maybe with a bit of wheel slippage on loose gravel.

(*) I've never actually driven it on snow because it's not snowed since we got the car, even though there were several previous years where it snowed.

[Steve Walker]

I think some keep the cost down and just simulate locked diffs by using the brakes to slow a spinning wheel and thus transfer drive to one with more grip.

SteveW

[The Natural Philosopher]

yes

so with similar tyres would be as

Non sequitur. On snow all youu need is flat surface traction.

BUT the defender has wider wheels - you need to get narrow wheels with M&S tyres for it.

[The Natural Philosopher]

yes.

[NY]

Ah, right. As long as it has the effect of transferring drive to the non-spinning wheels, how ever it is achieved, that's enough for most situations - a lot better than having a 2WD car with no transfer of drive.

So presumably it has three non-lockable diffs, with the middle one (between front and rear axles) including a clutch that is only engaged when 4WD is required.

I presume it has to release the brakes as soon as the car starts moving, otherwise the car will veer towards the side which was originally spinning.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The 2CV seemed to manage rather well designed for that with only FWD.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Meaning the Panda was designed for that job?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Automatic clutches are rarely ideal for conditions of extremely poor traction. Unless you are a useless driver.