To add to this I have now read that Insurance companies are unlikely to pay out if the proper alarms are not fitted. Is this just a cop out? My reckoning is even with fire alarms by the time you wake up / get out the house / then phone fire brigade which may take say 10 minutes to arrive I would imagine the house could be well alight. In other words with or without alarms the damage would likely be extensive.
Houses do not burn down in ten minutes! Except in films.
Not visible along their whole length for inspection.
There is no legal duty on the consumer to have inspection hatches installed. However, there is a long-standing legal duty on gas engineers to be able to examine the flue to ensure it is safe whenever they work on your boiler.
Owain
Okay, is this just for boiler then? That's not a problem.
I was thinking about the original chimneys, which could now be used for a gas fire. Mine passed a test meaning no flue liner is needed. I believe some others do have flue liners fitted. There is no way on this earth you could get to them without demolishing part of my lounge wall. I would require a huge compensation package before agreeing to this, including redecoration of the whole room afterwards.
wifey 2 doors down from me failed in her task
the fire brigade attended
And in reality. When did you witness an actual house fire and the speed with which it spreads ?.
Perhaps she wanted a new kitchen ??
what's a concealed flue?
is there any type of flue that's allowed
Most people in my block have their boiler located in the small bedroom (though not everyone will be using it as a bedroom)
Even new installs have been done that way
If they fall off the ceiling or wall do land butter side up?
So all those fancy diagrams on many boiler websites showing how using 50mm mupvc can be used to run a flats flue up a common void are misleading. Perhaps this is still allowed elsewhere in europe.
They probably assume a purpose built flue void open for inspection.
Owain
unlikely to
I think the insurance company would have show "beyond reasonable doubt" that the property would have been significantly less damaged if smoke alarms had been fitted.
And it's not just fire damage as in burnt, the whole house will be smoke damaged and a couple of hundred gallons of water a minute that a fire hose (not the little hose reel) can deliver isn't exactly good for things.
Maybe not down as only walls standing but "well alight" certainly and more than a single pump and its own water supply can cope with.
Balance of probabilities in civil cases, beyond reasonable doubt in criminal cases (prosecution side) unless to have authority to the contrary.
Feeding english google(*) with "scottish fire alarms" returns:
Not the actual legislation but enough from the horses mouth to tell you want is required. The funding I'd guess to be buried away in the Scottish Treasury somewhere.
(*) Perhaps scottish google blocks hits from the gov.scot domain. B-)
I found all that stuff but I want to see the legislation, either as passed by the Scottish Parliament or in the form of a Regulation promulgated by the relevant Minister. I think I'll make an FOI request and let them tell me where it is.
Why do you think there is more than the Order to which I gave you a link? That seems to me clear enough if you read it with the Housing (Scotland) Act 1987 which it amends - and which requires regard to be had to guidance from Ministers when construing what is satisfactory equipment. Cf the building regs and "Approved Documents" in England.
The Tolerable Standard Guidance PDF[1] refers in its first paragraph:
The tolerable standard is amended by the Hous2. In section 86(1) of the Housing (Scotland) Act 1987 (definition of house meeting tolerable standard), after paragraph (i) insert?
?(j)has satisfactory equipment installed for detecting, and for giving warning of, fire or suspected fire;
(k)has satisfactory equipment installed for detecting, and for giving warning of, carbon monoxide present in a concentration that is hazardous to health,?.
The requirement for specific alarms is given in the Guidance[1], which
defines what is ?satisfactory? by setting out the requirement for: ? one smoke alarm installed in the room most frequently used for general daytime living purposes (normally the living room/lounge); ? one smoke alarm in every circulation space on each storey, such as hallways and landings; ? one heat alarm installed in every kitchen; ? all smoke and heat alarms to be ceiling mounted; and ? all smoke and heat alarms to be interlinked ... In some buildings, it may not be practical to fit fire and smoke alarms to this exact standard.
The Guidance therefore suggests an alarm system in the Tolerable Standard which may not be the same as that required for new build in the Building Standards, or even one of the recognised grades (LD1 for example). On the other hand, the guidance does not seem to proscribe other systems such as full panel-type systems, which don't have "smoke alarms", so if you live in a castle and have a full panel system you don't need to stick some battery-powered Fire Angels in the cupola.
Owain
[1]
No idea. That's why I want to read the Order as is my citizen's right in a democratic society.
Thanks for finding that. Regrettably, my searching abilities have conspicuously failed.
Confusion arises because the Housing (Scotland) Act 1987 has not been amended as the new paragraphs are not yet in force:
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