Re: Result!

I agree.

However, I was referring to time wasted at the checkout, not time selecting the goods.

In order to select products effectively, they need to be properly displayed and presented, not left in boxes or on warehouse shelves. The cheap warehouse supermarkets are especially bad for this.

One can look at the example of a French market or major French supermarket to see how fresh produce should be displayed.

Once it comes to the checkout, there is no excuse for making the customer wait. A couple of minutes is reasonable. Ten is not, and is an indication that the store is understaffed. This may well be to save money, but in effect all that is happening is that the store is clawing back the money that the customer apparently saved by wasting his time - something far more expensive than any saving on the goods, even if they were of quality in the first place.

Reply to
Andy Hall
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You'd be surprised.

I'm sure that they do.

I'm equally sure that they have nothing to be concerned about in respect of Lidl or Aldi.

Reply to
Andy Hall

I suspect that the Sainsbury family once felt that way about Tesco.

Reply to
Tony Bryer

AIUI Aldi specially train their staff in how to scan quickly.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

No I wouldn't. I did a lot of work with them in a previous life and I know exactly how they justify spend.

That would be why Tesco set up a whole dummy store, then.

Reply to
Fran

Exactly. Whatever you think about Tesco, they aren't daft, and they don't spend money they don't need to.

Reply to
Fran

That's absurd. If you are judging on the basis of time, it needs to be the overall time - if it takes you half an hour longer to get to a supermarket and walk round its vastness, that wipes out any supposed saving at the checkout.

You know, I don't think you've ever been in one. There's very little difference in presentation - what they DO carry is a lower stock number. So, only a couple of brands of detergent, for example.

The last time I went to a Tesco, I actually waited in line far longer than our local Lidl. The fruit and vegetables are of higher quality in our local Lidl branch than in the local Tesco - comparable to Waitrose and JS. As witnessed by subjective assessments such as the type of vehicle in the car park, and objective ones such as surveys showing the shopping demographic. ABC1s are shopping in Waitrose, Sainsbury and the discounters.

It's fine to decide you won't shop somewhere because you think it down market or not quite your thing: your choice. It just means you miss out on some very good quality and interesting goods.

As to time: it takes me far less time to get to, and around Lidl than around the huge sheds that are the major supermarkets. So, take overall time into account and you're far better off. I can park literally by the door, get the things I buy in a supermarket very quickly - and not get lured by superfluity, either.

Reply to
Fran

Our local Lidl staff work like the clappers. Nice girls, too. Always uncomplainingly pleasant.

Reply to
Fran

This is a classic "If it wasn't so popular there'd be more people there" argument.

Reply to
The Older Gentleman

Fran is right and you are wrong. In Germany, that has been a massive demographic shift towards the discounters, which are no longer seen as cheap & tacky.

It's happening here, too. Aldi knows it, and last year announced a plan to expand its market share from its present 2.5% to about 12% in the next lustrum[1].

This would give it a bigger market share than Morrisons presently enjoys.

[1] I've been looking for a chance to use that word.
Reply to
The Older Gentleman

And other supermarkets don't?

"Where are we going wrong, Underlings?"

"Well, Lord Sainsbury, we have a real problem. You see, those sneaky buggers at Aldi and Lidl have a secret weapon."

"Which is?"

"They've taught their checkout staff to scan goods quickly."

"Good Lord. Which is to say, good Myself. And we don't?"

"No, my Lord. We thought it was better to teach them to wave items hopefully at the scanners from a range of three feet."

Reply to
The Older Gentleman

You are *so* wrong.

Hint: this is something I hav to study in the course of my "work".

Reply to
The Older Gentleman

They probably did, but they haven't done badly, nonetheless.

Since 2000:

In the mass market

- Tesco have increased from 25% to 31%

- Asda have increased from 14% to 17%

- Morissons have increased from 5% to 11% (much of that being acquisition of Safeway).

- Somerfield have decreased from about 7% to under 4%

In the premium market:

- Sainsbury have lost market share from approx 18% to 16.5%

- Waitrose have increased from 2.5% to 4%

- M&S have increased from 3% to 4.5%

In the discount market:

- Aldi increased from 1.5% to 2.4%

- Lidl increased from 1.3% to 2.1%

- Netto has remained flat at 0.6%

In terms of who should be worried about the discount warehouses, it's obviously Somerfield because they are closer to being in the same market sector. For Tesco, it can only be a small limitation to rate of growth. Waitrose and M&S don't compete anywhere closely with the discounters.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Wrong. It's all of them, because the discounters (and I'm assuming you mean Aldi and Lidl here) are moving upmarket. They really, really are.

Waitrose and M&S are unlikely to be affected, agreed.

Reply to
The Older Gentleman

No it isn't. The difference is time that I choose to spend vs. time of mine that the supplier chooses to waste. The former represents choice. The latter represents poor customer service. There is never an excuse for that.

Which is why I don't do that.

Twice, if I remember correctly. I am unlikely to repeat the (bad) experience.

Lack of choice. Lack of service.

Fortunately we don't have a local Lidl branch.

Evidence?

It means that I miss out on poor presentation and lack of customer service.

I take time into account in the same way as most other commodities. If I choose to spend it in a particular way because it pleases me to do so then that is my choice. If a supplier chooses to waste it because of understaffing, poor quality procedures etc. then it is not acceptable. Under those circumstances I will look to the supplier to compensate me for my wasted time, as M&S did on one occasion when I made a wasted trip. I wouldn't expect a discount supermarket to do that, and so I won't do business with them.

I prefer to take my time over selection of what I want, presented properly and not in boxes, but having done so expect to be served quickly and efficiently.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Because there are no depths to which the british consumer will not sink. It's about time a supermarket realised this and started selling dog turds with a range of attractive frosted toppings.

Why anyone puts the products sold at Lidl and Aldi in their mouths is beyond me. Both stores have been caught out in the past by the Feinschmecker magazine which detailed their involvement in a food scam.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Yes, I am fully aware of that. However, it does not mean that one can put two and two together and make five - i.e. that it is because they are worried about the discounters.

At the most, the discounters can make a small dent in their overall rate of growth.

However, Tesco attempts to straddle the mass and premium markets and dabbles in the low end of the market. It would be much easier for them to set up a discount brand store chain and easily reach 3-5% market share than it would for them to compete with the premium retailers.

I suspect that they will come to the same conclusion that Asda did after attempting to open a no frills discount chain - not worth the candle.

In the meantime, at the other end of the market, M&S is being phenomenally successful with its Simply Food stores. The reason is simple - good quality selection of products and excellent customer service.

Reply to
Andy Hall

From what I saw, they have a very, very long way to go.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Germany is a totally different market.

The only reason for that is because of food price inflation, not because the discounters are offering anything decent. Buying and selling on price as they do inevitably leads to questionnable supply.

We've heard all of that before. Based on their track record over the last ten years, that is about as likely as a pork pie at a Bar Mitzvah.

Apart from referring to a five year period lustrum refers to a ritual cleansing. Hopefully, as a marketplace, we can do a ritual cleansing of these suppliers. The demise of Kwik Save and Somerfield suggests that it should be possible.

Morrisons doesn't deserve to enjoy anything. They should stick to their core business of selling pies.

Reply to
Andy Hall

He's conflating market share with market sector. Oh dear. And, of course, Somerfield have shrunk because their branches were bought out! (Hint: ours is now a Sainsbury.)

Given that our Lidl sells things like (excellent) lobster, venison, scallops.....

I'd totally agree on that. Especially as it seems that the pattern in the upper demogrpahics is to shop at one or both of those and a discounter!

Reply to
Fran

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