Re: OT: Climate Change Bullshit

All the same stuff, give or take.

But that's missing the point: highly qualified people (i.e. of the sort we ought to want here) are choosing to avoid us.

The Geim anecdote is merely that; but it is being repeated in other domains, e.g. biochemistry.

I wish mine was. Usually I'm too far ahead of the curve :)

Irrelevant. The only relevant question is whether we are better in or out. Many people think in, and those that are able to escape *are* voting with their feet.

Whether they are correct is not yet proven, but once they have gone the question becomes unimportant.

Overly melodromatic, of course.

The EU will, without doubt, "make us pay" - if only to demonstrate to other internal dissenters the penalties of being outside the tent. Galileo was the start; it won't be the end.

Mechanisms can be subtle.

In the mid 80s France wanted to protect its VCR industry against the Japanese. They couldn't impose differential tariffs, so they ensured all Japanese VCR imports had to go through Poitiers. Look at a map, and see Potiers' relationship to big ports :)

No idea; don't care. The French do such things regularly. Another technique is farmers turning on muckspreaders just as they drive past town halls etc.

They are all terrtibvly third world. They mist be. They are not in the EU.

Just a heap of bureaucracy taht will in the end damage Eurpopean nations more than the UK

It was explamed to me this way

"We voted Right. More taxes. We voted left: More taxes. Maybe next time we vote Marine le Pen instead"

All this does is prove what a *wonderful* entity the EU is <cue the EU anthem>. Clearly its an assemblage of entirely free nations that all would want to be part of.

Small wonder that Switzerland and Iceland terminated their applications to enter the EU. Small nations, admittedly, but now we see why.

Next thing you'll see is are Treaty amendments which will remove A50, and another that will ban referendums on EU membership by existing members, and make criticism of the EU a crime.

I don't think the EU is wonderful; it certainly has significant problems. It is merely behaving in a way that is consistent with self-interest - why would it do otherwise?

But you are (deliberately?) avoiding the point: it will be worse out than in. It isn't good vs bad, it is the lesser of two evils.

We notice you snip the substantive points that illustrate how that is *already* happening.

Yes, as the old adage goes, "no matter who you vote for, the government is always elected".

But it won't just be Le Pen or Stephen Yaxley-wotsisname. It could be Corbyn or someone on the far left. The far left and far right are very similar and are both anti-democratic, as Stalin and Goebbels knew.

Welcome to the Weimar Republic Mk2. And, my, didn't that end well.

They're fed up with being f***ed-over with ever higher taxes on the pretext of climate change.

criticism of the EU is already a crime for any member of it. Punishable by loss of job and pension IIRC.

It is in fact the ONLY way that a member - a bureaucrat can actually sever ties with it.

Whose self inter4ets?

And over what time span?

The EU has been building up trouble for itself because its long term understanding of historical and economic forces has been close to zilch,and its obsession with idealsitic politiocal strictrures at te expense of pragmatic management has alienated it from vast swathes of the European population.

Its latest actions may save it a few years, but they ensure its eventual demise.

Remoaners show us that yes, in general the European population is pretty stupid, but Brexiteers and yellowjackets show us that in the end they are not sufficiently stupid to lie down and take it.

Proof by assertion? No. it won't be.

Eben a cold lifeboat is better than a sinking Titanic

We can agree on that.

Already being *engineered* in order to bias the outcome.

And these days te so called soft left centrists are ALSO anti-democratic, as the European Unions demonstrates.

Well, maybe, maybe not.

From where I am sitting, looking at the Left and the EU, I feel like a Jew in 1930s Germany.

In a nutshell., yes!

So now TNP is claiming brexiteers are not stupid, however we have several examples of brexiteers here: harry, TNP, CD, etc all of whom can be seen to be very stupid

Ohh didums, who's picking on you?

Dunno about 1930s, but if I were a Jew today I'd be making plans to get the hell out of EUrope!

Of course. I wouldn't expect otherwise. They want - corporations to move their businesses to the EU (and they are already doing that: e.g. Barclays and Jacob Rees-Mogg's company[1]) - to frighten others into not leaving

Whatever the motivation, the end result is that we will be worse off outside the EU, and will be pushed around by the larger commercial and political blocs.

Many English people are doing just that, by making use of foreign grandparents to enable them to escape from the UK before it ceases to be the UK.

Because the true self-interest of the EU should that of its member states - all of them, which at the present time includes us. What is the EU doing having an independently self-determined self-interest?

The EU has no business sulking because one of its members chooses to leave. It has no business deciding it should "punish" a member state for leaving. That makes it no better than the Soviet Union, who sent in the tanks when Hungary and Czechoslovakia hinted they wanted to leave its ambit.

That you think it's OK for the EU to have a "self-interest" just confirms that you are a twerp. That the EU has such a self-interest and also seeks to punish, just confirms that the EU is wrongly structured and is led by the wrong people - people that we, the electorate, can't get rid of.

End of discussion.

This is just an argument that might have been used to seek peace with Adolf in 1939, and instead of war, divided up Europe between us.

Yes, it could be.

The flipside of that is more revealing...

Cameron had the notion that leadership is "where do you want to go? OK, follow me". May has perpetuated that.

Earlier generations had the notion that leadership was knowing where it is best to go, and then convincing doubters to follow them.

Both Cameron and May said it was best to remain, then were cowardly, hiding behind "it is the will of the people".

We decided to leave, and once we have left they *will* be acting in the interest of the *remaining* states.

Hence your statements below are nonsensical.