th’s climate

I mean this kindly, but this is hardly news. The climate changes. Weather to follow :)

I read a while back that fossilised leaf imprints showed that plant stoma had adapted to much more CO2 in the atmosphere than today.

I've been banging my head against a brick wall forever. No amount of arguing over the *cause* of climate change is ever going to make it go away.

Once that is agreed, the next step is merely the best way to deal with the effects. Which are locally much better provision for water management (storage and drainage) and infrastructure adapted to sudden changes in weather. Not pissing around with get-rich-quick-schemes under the cloak of "the planet".

Ah, but the key issues is just how high the CO2 levels were with no catastrophic effects.

Well so many things can cause it, including the climate itself.

Indeed. Rapid reaction forces, not windmills

Investment in tidal barriers, not solar farms.

I'd rather not reshape the planet in a bid to learn though. Call me picky.

Wouldn't the dino teeth timescale require "calibrating" to known values in a similar way that Carbon14 dating needs pairing with tree growth rings etc?

Similar results have been confirmed from ice cores.

Just as they have ignored the fact their predictions of cities, islands, etc being submerged, ice caps melting, …… those promoting global warming simply ignore data they don’t like.

It's been done - uses oxygen isotope ratios in geological strata whose age can be identified and ordered based on the fossils they contain:

The paper doesn't even mention temperatures, so I don't know how you infer that there wasn't any runaway global warming.

Bit late for all that now

-- Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and, on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

I assumed that as a student of climate you would already know what the temperatures were that far back in history.

At any rate its clear they weren't high enough to 'boil the oceans' 'destroy all life on earth' or lead to 'irreversible climate change'

"It opens up the possibility of using fossilized tooth enamel to investigate the composition of the early Earth's atmosphere and the

If we already knew what the temperatures were that far back in history, why does this German paper help us to conclude that there was no runaway global warming?

We already knew that too.

Well quite.

So we return to the fact that it's best to plan to cope with it. And anyone who believes otherwise is a moron in a box.

Given how chaotic the weather that climate drives is, such predictions where best ignored by anyone who was familiar with science. Poor show for "scientists" who were making predictions then.

The truth is we can't really know on a year by year basis what *will* happen. Only that it will involve more energy kicking around between the surface of the earth and space.

Because it actually gives an excellent record of the atmospheric composition

In particular how much CO2

Well no, apperently we didnt

It's not lack of intelligence, it's lack of streetwisdom.

Those of us who have been around the block more than to just go to church, are aware of the fact that the predominant characteristic of powerful entities like governments, corporations and activist groups is that the bigger they are the more they lie.

And the bigger the lie, the more it tends to believed.

I man who seriously thinks that a guy on telly who is employed by Renewable UK who says 'renewable energy is far cheaper than fossil fuels ' is in fact simply lying through his back teeth?

And in fact renewable energy is anything from three to ten times more expensive once you take everything into account?

People say wahetever pays their bills and gets the kids a new pair of sneakers., Truth is always *someone else's problem*.

Until its a matter of existential survival, and the suddenly 'when the flag drops the bullshit stops'

No nation can afford to be left behind once the first one breaks ranks and ditches renewable energy and starts forming policy based on contingency and viability rather than unicorn dung, fairy farts and moonbeams...

Not necessarily even that.

As of now the *only* data that is almost irrefutable is that atmospheric at or near ground level CO2 is increasing.

And solar output fluctuates.

Everything else is a hypothesis, that may or may not be borne out by the data.

Even the absorption of infra red is only a lab based phenomena, and how that actually equates to a real life atmosphere with many heat travel paths and mechanisms is completely opaque.

Modelling e.g., convection at anything like a global scale is impossible. As is measuring te earths temperature at more than a few points that are close to human settlements where energy is being consumed in vast amounts. Likewise we measure sea temperatures from ships, that are heat polluters.

Likewise IR satellites that do measure the whole globes emissivity of heat and thius its temperature, do not measure it at ground level and their results are in complete disagreement with ground based 'measurements'.

The narrative of 'the world is heating up dangerously and we must do everything we can charge you for to stop it, because CO2 '...

...Is now seen to be on close inspection 'the world has had warming decades in some places And rising CO2. The linkage is unproven and quite weak, and in any case the prospect of collapsing global economies by not burning fossil fuels and relying on windmills is far far worse than spending the same money of helping - for example - farmers learn to grow new crops. And if you really want low carbon energy why the f*ck aren't you building nuclear power, which does a far better job, anyway?'

In short the AGW/renewable narrative makes no sense. In terms of 'preventing climate change' The only way it makes sense is a means of charging people a lot more for something they cant do without. And pocketing the change. And increasing control over the life blood of humanity and transferring it to people who are in it for the money

Let's face it, a lot of this stuff is guesswork, and all independent sources of corroboration are welcome.

It may be guess work, but is the sort of guess work my BIL has spent a lifetime calibrating.

All theories are guesswork if you like, but RealScience™ is good guesses backed up by a lot of evidence.

Unlike ClimateScience™, which is really a religion.

Other climate affecting variables are available . . .

Such as…

- The Earth’s axial tilt

- Precession of the axial tilt

- The obliquity of Earth’s orbit

- Precession of the Earth’s orbit.

These cause the huge temperature swings of the waxing and waning of the Ice Ages, in which trace atmospheric gases play no part.

If you want to get rid of the Ice Ages, and keep the planet with the imaginary ideal climate on which we are spending trillions in vain to achieve, all that needs to be done is to correct the axial tilt and circularise the orbit.

Sadly, there’s no money to be made in doing these things, so some believe in a world of ‘unicorns and fairy farts’ instead.