RE: Not in my time

I don't think you need bother. I was taught to follow Fowler*: in essence, if it /sounds/ like a vowel it's "an".

*A Dictionary Of Modern English Usage. From the second 1922 edition:

"A is used before all consonants except silent h (a history, an hour); an was formerly usual before an unaccented syllable beginning with h and is still often seen and heard {an historian, an hotel, an hysterical scene, an hereditary title, an habitual offender). But now that the h in such words is pronounced the distinction has become anomalous and will no doubt disappear in time. Meantime speakers who like to say an should not try to have it both ways by aspirating the h. A is now usual also before vowel letters that in pronunciation are preceded by a consonantal sound (a unit, a eulogy, a one)."

Reply to
Robin
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I think so. As one who normally likes to see the language preserved rather more than it is currently (hotchpotch of other languages though it is), I still think staying in an 'otel is awkward to say and far too French for my comfort.

Reply to
Bob Henson

The one thing France got right was language. It always sounds sexy in French. Mind you, as the saying goes, 'All the problems in French philosophy would have never arisen if they had written in German'...

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

Again - but I like that one.

Reply to
Bob Henson

Asian and Jamaican, according to Google, and popularised by Ali G.

Reply to
Scott

Bullshit Baffles Brains.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I don't mind hearing either an 'otel, or a hotel, but it really grates to hear a 'otel, or an hotel ...

Reply to
Andy Burns

Most of the words that entered English from Norman French have similar equivalents in modern French, so it is not really that hard.

However, I expect that today requiring all university applicants to pass an examination on their use of English and to have at least an O level in one foreign modern language would be considered discriminatory or as penalising the disadvantaged.

Reply to
Colin Bignell

My 1996 edition doesn't differ much from this although it's too copious for me to bother to copy. Suffice it to say, that the question of the origin of the word (A-S vs. N-F) does not arise.

Reply to
Tim Streater

Sounds profound, yes.

Reply to
Tim Streater

Knowing the origins and development of words does explain a lot of the oddities of the English language.

Reply to
Colin Bignell

Well now this is a puzzle. According to my 1996 3rd edition, we have:

First Edition 1926 Second Edition 1965 Third Edition 1996

Reply to
Tim Streater

Oh agreed. And I have no problem with oddities.

Reply to
Tim Streater

I've often heard people refer to 'an historic..' or 'an historical..' while pronouncing the H but never heard anyone say 'an history of..'.

I've always heard 'history' pronounced with an H and therefore taking 'a', except for those who drop all Hs who then tend to use 'an' ('ee 'ad an 'istory of GBH..).

Reply to
Joe

I heard it at least sixty years ago from East Londoners (now Essex people) and presumably Sarf Londoners would also have been using it then.

This was in the days before there were that many foreigners in London.

It would have been the late Fifties when I embarrassed my mother, who always said my hands were black when they needed washing, when I saw my first black child...

Reply to
Joe

It's a fair cop. My copy's lost its cover and title pages so I was busking it from a (patently faulty) memory. I think it must be Gowers' Second Edition.

Reply to
Robin

Indeed.

TNP is perhaps confused by the way a lot of young British with subcontinent heritage started to use it this century as a tag or filler.

Reply to
Robin

Is it not just a convenient shorthand for: "considering what you have just said, then this follows" ?

Reply to
Sn!pe

If that were how it is used, this debate would not be taking place.

Reply to
Tim Streater

I was taught English grammar at school, too. Only not in UK.

Reply to
Ottavio Caruso

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