Race to the bottom

[Fredxx]

Another lie. I will give you credit for being illiterate, read my post of the 27/06/22 @ 13:05

[Fredxx]

Because some US properties are fed with 2-phases of 120V to give 208V.

You are the one in denial. If you're capable of using google you can see for yourself. Not common in communities with low density housing but is common in high density such as apartments.

Just one link:

"RE 120/208, pretty common in North America for multi-tenant residential. 3 phase to the site transformer, then 2 legs fed to each individual unit".

There are plenty others. I don't have numbers but I have always accepted that 120/240V is the norm.

There is no wriggling going on, just some bare faced lies from those in denial.

[Fredxx]

I don't see those words used.

Dreaming. I have never said anything of the sort.

Agree, some articles use the term bi-phase.

Once again you're in denial of the simple fact that many properties are.

I can't work out if you're too stupid to use Google to check for yourself if 120/208V is sometimes supplied to residential units.

Another link in additional to others I've provided:

By all means plonk me. It means it'll be more easy to correct the numerous mistruths you spout. And will save you looking more stupid than ever when you show more ignorance in your replies.

[Tim Lamb]

Not understanding the differences between split single phase, line/neutral and 3 phase line/line voltages appears to be the problem.

Lack of knowledge does not normally equate to stupidity else we are all suspect:-)

>

[The Natural Philosopher]

But they are not domestic properties. They are commercial/light industrial ]

[Fredxx]

I have never intimated that a two phase supply is provided to blocks of flats in the UK. Feel free to quote me.

The only difference is the UK is provided 240V with live at 240V and neutral close to earth, and in the US it's 240V balanced either side of earth. So from a users POV there's little difference.

I'm not the one bringing up the subject of phases when comparing 240V in the US and UK.

Not if you consider that 240V enters most homes, the only different is it's balanced around earth potential. From a users POV there's little difference.

I have never said it was.

Where? Any wriggling is on your behalf where you bring phases into the discussion when there was no need.

It seems that you are now in effect agreeing with my stand that:

1) 240V enters homes in the UK and most homes in the US 2) 208V is sometimes provided to some residential properties which is 2 phases of 120V.

If you still think those are lies, then there is no hope for you.

[Fredxx]

Once again I can only refer you to US electrician forums; where 208V is not uncommon in apartment buildings.

Rather than denial, and seemingly a refusal to look at links I have previously provided, you could do your own research.

[Fredxx]

I fully respect anyone who doesn't know and wants to learn.

3-phase power is a subject to itself and requires some visualising of vectors, that is a magnitude and angle. What is worse is that each angle is constantly changing at a rate of 50/60Hz, but for most purposes can be visualised as 3 static vectors at 120degrees apart.

With a bit of non-trivial trigonometry, 208V = sqrt(3) x 120V and 400V = sqrt(3) x 230V to a close approximation. I'd be impressed with anyone who can follow:

[Tim Lamb]

Domestic supplies having different phases would not normally be found in adjoining properties here. The line/line voltage of 415V being considered unsafe.

[Dave Plowman (News]

Eh? How do they balance the load?

[charles]

by guessing that each house took a similar load.

[Tim Lamb]

In message [e-mail]>, "Dave Plowman (News)" [e-mail]> writes

Tricky with your London terrace!

Ask ARW but I don't think the supplies run RYB or even brown/black/grey to adjoining premises.

>

[SteveW]

I thought that they were in groups, with a number of houses on one phase, then the next group on another. At each change of phase, there are going to be neighbouring houses on different phases.

[Fredxx]

The article had nothing specific to US supply provision. 3-Phase is used around the world with very few exception. So I am surprised at your post?

As a general rule adjacent properties are fed with different phases. Rules tend to be bent where convenience trumps locally balancing the phases.

415V isn't normally called the line voltage, but phase to phase.

Incidently, the official voltage is 230V/400V but as we know 240/415 is more typical.

[Paul]

There's a picture here.

With regard to the substation rating in the text there, the 12.47kV level of mine, runs at the 1 megawatt level. I was told that by the operator on the phone. The reason the operator was on the phone, is I had complained about the non-compliant voltage on my mast, they sent two guys in a cherry picker to verify my claim and the operator, while I was on the phone, made a one-tap change to the distribution voltage (in real time).

So we were chit-chatting while the linemen completed their quick voltage check. The operator will not do anything, unless a lineman verifies any claims.

Apparently, the large apartment building fed from the substation, is electrically heated with baseboard heaters, and it is that load which they automatically compensate at

8AM on winter mornings. This is why they have tap changers available. One of the reasons.

So yes, we do like high voltage, and yes, we do live dangerously. By, for example, not trimming out trees next to that distribution.

To run three phase at 12.47kV, the clearance to trees is wider. They even do the tree trimming properly. I looked. But the example three phase in that case, is in a different "sector" than my place. That's a drive from here. The 3ph power actually runs to a military contractor (does helicopter repair programs among other things).

Paul

[Paul]

There's a picture here, to compare systems.

Paul

[ARW]

It 400V not 415V now in the UK.

[SteveW]

Is it? The original implementation of the "new" voltages was simply to widen the voltage ranges that equipment was certified for, so we could carry on using 415V and other countries could carry on using 380V and we could all call it 400V, within the allowed tolerances and run the same equipment. We did not actually change the voltage supplied. You may be right though and they may have changed the supply voltage in individual locations - although dropping from 415V to 400V would also drop the single phase supplies to approximately 230V, which definitely hasn't happened where I am.

[Dave Plowman (News]

How to they balance between phases if all houses are on the same phase?

[Dave Plowman (News]

Quite.