Partition Wall

[HappyHunter]

Hi

I'm going to put up a partition wall in my shed (it's a large stone building).

Am just at the thinking it through stage !

Anyway, while thinking it through, I wonder what's the best way to attach the 2 end studs to the wall. So, the 2 end studs will be attached to stone walls (a mix of sandstone and some brick where it's been repaired in the past).

I was thinking, of screws, but that could be a bit fiddly since I'd need to drill a hole in the stone wall then line it up with the wood.

Would an angle bracket be best ? something like this

's the normal way to attach the end studs to a stone/brick wall ?

Thanks. Ailsa

[Dave Liquorice]

Frame fixings. Basically long screws and plugs. You just put the frame or stud in the right place and drill right through the frame and into the wall the required depth, alignment is automatic. You can get hammer in frame fixings drill the hole and hammer the screw and plug in. No tedious fitting of plug and screwing in of screw...

[TheOldFellow]

The normal way is with frame fixings, like this:

brick, packing is still always required to get the stud-end plumb, but in your case this may be more than usual, so I might drill for threaded studs,

bond them in,

can still do it through the wood, as the capsule will go down the through-hole, remember to blow the holes out well)

The key is to end up with a vertical stud in both dimensions regardless of what the wall does - this means tapered packing from both sides until it's perfect.

Depends a lot of the strength of the wall you want. A partition is one thing, but something clad in plywood with heavy shelves is another.

R.

[Lobster]

That's how I'd be doing it. You drill the holes through the studs first, then hold the stud in place while you poke something narrow and sharp down the holes to mark the position of the holes in the wall, then drill those. So no problem lining up the holes.

I've been known to use my narrowest narrow masonry bit (ie on my drill) to mark up the hole positions if it's otherwise hard to see the marks made on the wall.

(I take it the shed is fully dry etc and there's no worries about the timber studs/floorplate getting damp?)

David

[Dave Baker]

You need rawlplugs and screws or frame fixings which are special screws that can be screwed directly into brickwork or blocks although not stone AFAIK. Position your studding against the wall where you want it to be and mark the studding with a pencil where there's a mortar joint in the wall or else you'll end up drilling into stone which would be very hard work. Where there's brick or block you're better off screwing directly into that. Drill through the studding for each screw hole and line it back up against the wall. Then mark the wall through each hole with a screw by pushing it in and giving it a little tap with a hammer. Drill the holes in the wall with a masonry bit, tap in the rawlplugs and then screw the studding into those. Alternatively you can have a spare pair of hands hold the studding against the wall while you drill a pilot hole into it through each stud hole with a small masonry bit. Then enlarge those to the correct size with a bigger masonry bit. That's probably a better way of getting the holes exactly in the right place.

Make sure you don't drill the holes into the masonry too large or the plugs will be a poor fit. Usually you want a drill bit a tad undersize because they often make a hole a bit larger than the shank size.

If the wall is really uneven you will need bits of packing behind it to get the studding level. Once you've done a trial fit you can screw or nail those to the back of the studding. Ideally you want to either have the frame screws go right through the packing pieces too or at least have them close to each screw so you're not bending the studding between the packing pieces when you tighten it down.

[Dave Liquorice]

I'd go for the block/brick/stone rather than a joint. Even modern cement mortar is very soft and really hasn't got much holding capabilty. This building sounds like and old place, the mortar may well be lime based which is even softer. An SDS drill makes short work of most building materials even with a 10mm bit that frame fixings might require.

Packing to make plumb? Vertical so that the new wall is plumb yes but unless the old wall is really off just have packing so that the studd isn't stressed over lumps/bumps on the old wall. Remember you can knock small high points off the wall to get a closer fit.

[HappyHunter]

Well, hmmmmmm ...

Floor dry. Ceiling (corrugated pvc sheeting), sort of (condesation problems ... sigh). Walls, mostly and rectifying.I've redone the pointing internally, but suspect the other side is pretty rotten looking on one wall (haven't looked yet as it's the neighbours garden wall for her). Other 3 walls, I'll fix internally as well as externally (that's what I'm doing just now).

For the partition I think I should assume that the timers that touch ground/walls could get damp, was thinking of some plastic sheeting between wood and walls/floor to try and minimise contact with possible damp.

[HappyHunter]

It's a very old building. 3 walls are mainly sandstone. 1 wall rebuilt in brick with cavity some years ago I guess (so 2 lines of brick with cavity in between).

One of the sandstone walls has brick repairs in it (quite large sections, but high up). Another sandstone wall has various "stones" in it as well, not sandstone blocks or brick, look like big lumps of stone (which I'd image would be horrendous to drill into, but that's not the wall the frame is going on anyway).

I think I'd aim to fix the frame to the "best looking" largest blocks I can see. I've repointed a lot internally so lots of the old pointing is gone, but I'd guess, scrape beneath that initial layer and there will be a right mish mash underneath. You know, I found sea shells in the pointing ! Does sort of look like they maybe visited the beach to get something to mix with the cement (or more likely lime).

Cheers Ailsa

[Bob Minchin]

If you can get a few fixings into blocks you could consider leaving a small gap and injecting some expanding builders foam. This stuff not only fills any gaps but sticks to most surfaces and will add strength to your first stud. Possibly best to use screws in the noggins and adjacent studs rather than dislodging anything by hammering.

Bob

[fred]

Although it's normal to have the foot plate of the partition on the floor there's nothing stopping you lifting it off with a few inert spacers to keep it out of the damp. Impermeable membranes can trap moisture as well as keep it out.

Another tip is to prefabricate the basic stud partition on the floor and then lift it into space before fixing top bottom & sides although it gets a bit heavy once it's 4 or 5m long.

If there's any likelihood of damp or condensation then ply is prob best for the sheathing.

[The Medway Handyman]

Far too much like hard work. Hammer fixings are the WTG.

You don't need to mark the wall at all.

[The Medway Handyman]

Plugs in motar joins are pants. SDS has no trouble drilling into stone.

Hold stud against wall, drill right through & into wall, insert hammer fixing, whack with hammer - repeat as required.

Don't know where this myth comes from. If Rawlplug or Fischer say 'drill a

6mm hole' they will have allowed for that.

Or

[David WE Roberts]

Around here (Suffolk) we are on Red Crag (above London Clay) and the sand is very shelly. Older properties (1930's) tend to have mortar using the local sand including the shells.

Nowadays they tend to wash and grade everything so I haven't seen any shells in the sand at the B&P Merchants.

Cheers

Dave R