Fixing studs to brick wall

[MGA]

Dear all, as part of my garage conversion I have been asked by the building control officer to fix studs to the wall, add insulation, a vapour barrier and plasterboard. It's a single brick wall and it has piers every 1.5 meters more or less. That means that I need to get quite deep studs to provide an even surface for the plasterboard. I have the battens ready, they are 15 by

5 centimetres, but being so deep, what is the best way to fix them to the wall?

I can't just screw them because I can't find screws long enough. I've thought about fixing thinner studs to the wall horizontally and them skew nail the studs to them vertically. Another option would be to fix them using some kind of metal brackets.

What is the best way to do this?

Thanks in advance!

MGA

[Dave Jones]

Would it not be easier to add an internal block wall?

[G&M]

Would still need insulation between the walls to meet part L.

How tall is the ceiling and is it strong enough to support the structure (with the floor of course) and don't bother attaching to the wall ?

As for long screws, B&Q sell them up to 8 inches (German brand I can't remember name of)

[chris French]

In message , MGA writes

not sure I'd call a bit of 6x2 a batten :-)

Lots and lots of 'no more nails'.....? :-)

The metal brackets seems like the best option here, there are various sorts of galvanized brackets used for framing, joists etc. one should be suitable, and they aren't expensive. quicker than drilling big long holes etc. even if you could find screws.

You'll see the sort of thing here:

(Yup not worth posting a Screwfix link at the mo'......)

[Michael Mcneil]

Take them back and exchange them for 2 x 2s. 3 x 2 is the maximum or the BCO is a tit. You don't need to come out to the piers just insulate the thin bit.

If he insists you do the piers too follow them round with 2x2. 4 x 2 is well ott in my humble. If you want to go ahead anyway, just make them into frames with a top and bottom bit and screw them to the piers. That way you are only going through the thin bit. Make the frames an 1/2 small and use packers, that way you won't be struggling to get them in.

Brown plugs and 3" screws; et vwallah.

[Dave Jones]

Yes, but he's gonna have a 6 in gap to fill using those studs!

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Frame fixings. They come in a variety of lengths.

[Pete C]

Hi,

How long are the studs and how far are they required to be apart? Also what insulation do you plan on using, and what is required for an extension. Also how wide are the piers themselves?

cheers, Pete.

[Tony Bryer]

IMO that leaves you with a strong chance of the piers being prone to condensation or penetrating damp. I would build stud walls with full height studs between sole and head plates set out between the piers so that the rear face of the plasterboard was 10mm or so from the face of the pier - or at the loss of a little extra space, 30mm and put some 25mm polystyrene in between the studs either side of the pier.

[Cicero]

================ If you can be bothered to do it......

Drill countersinks with a 1" brace and bit (or spade bit in normal power drill) to a depth of about 4" followed by smaller holes to take size 10s screws . Then use 4" screws into normal wall plugs.

It's a bit tedious but it will do the job as if you were fixing 2" x 2" battens.

Cic.

[Lobster]

If I've understood your configuration properly, then what you need to do is 'bury' the screws within the joists. By which I mean, first drill a clearance hole for the screw right through the joist (15cm), large enough for the screw shaft, but not the head. Now fit another bit, which will drill a hole just large enough for the screw head to pass through. Now over-drill the original hole in the joist, but stop short of boring right through (say, 10cm deep?) Now you can drop your screw down the hole, and all but 5cm will protrude from the bottom/back of the joist, and you can access the screw head with a screwdriver down the overbored hole.

It's still best to use screws as long as you can obtain, and keep the overbored hole to a minimum, as that's mechanically most most sound.

David

[G&M]

Spax sell them up to 8 inches.

[MGA]

Dear all,

Thanks so much for your answers! In summary, these are the possible solutions suggested and what I think about them:

1- Use metal brackets: sounds easy, cheap and fast. 2- Use thinner studs and work around the piers: sounds easy and cheap too, but it leaves the problem of the wall not been flat. I want to put some of the old kitchen units in there so it may be a problem. 3- Bury screws into studs: easy but not that fast. I guess brackets is as good solution to get a solid structure in place? 4- Free-standing frame: I would prefer other options before if only because it's more work! It would also take more space. 5- Build an inner block wall: wouldn't I have to reinforce the foundations for this? working with timber is more or less ok (I've finished now the roof, and it wasn't that complicated), but with this I wouldn't know where to start to be honest. 6- No more nails... ;) that would be excellent wouldn't it? ...

I was planning in doing the work tomorrow but it seems like I'll have to do something else (the partition wall?) and give this a bit more thinking to choose the right option...

Thanks again for your time!!!

MGA

ps: thanks also for your patient when reading my posts. As you're probably aware by now English is not my first language: I'm from Spain but living in sunny Hertfordshire ;)

[Pete C]

Hi,

Another way could be to put a 3.5" deep 'stringer' at the top and bottom of the alcoves, then fix 3" studs to this to bring the plasterboard 1/2" proud of the piers.

With a bit of luck 3" celotex in the alcoves will be enough to make the average U value of the wall meet the regs, and will require less cutting to fit between the top and bottom stringers, instead of between the studs.

There will then be a 1/2" gap between the piers and the plasterboard and a 1/2" gap between the studs and the celotex, and a 'draw wire' can be run in the gap before fitting the plasterboard to make it easier to add wiring in future.

Also using foil backed plasterboard will improve the U value as there will be an air gap behind it, plus it will form a vapour barrier to help prevent condensation behind the plasterboard.

cheers, Pete.

[timegoesby]

Use a frame off the wall fixed to the floor and ceiling. As the frame is off the wall, it prevents cold bridging. Pack with insulation. Garage walls are notorious for being leaky, so having the inner wall not touching the outer is a very good thing for thermal and water problems.

Did the BCO ask you to seal the floor, and up to 3 foot up the walls, with Sythaproof bitumin type of sealant?

[chris French]

In message , MGA writes

No, didn't occur to me at all, an native speaker would probably not have used 'batten ' in this context - means fairly small section timber, otherwise, no indication to me.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You've missed out the easy way. Frame fixings. These are much faster - and easier - than wall plugs with separate screws.

[MGA]

Hi Dave, what exactly are frame fixings and do you use them? also, where can you get them?

Thanks

MGA

[Cicero]

=============== Frame fixings are long screws inside long plastic plugs. The idea is that you can drill through a timber frame and into the underlying brickwork and then insert the complete fixing in one go. I don't think they're suitable for your job because as far as I know the longest available is about 6". They're also a bit difficult to use because the screw part usually requires a lot of force to drive in. You can improve them by replacing the supplied screws with hex-headed coach screws which can be driven home with a socket spanner.

Cic.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

They are similar to a screw and wall plug, but the much longer wall plug goes through the wood into the wall. I drill holes in the wood first at the correct places then use a masonry drill through those holes. Then you simply hammer the fixing in place - followed by a half turn on the screw with a driver. They can be removed in the normal way. The beauty is that the holes always line up perfectly.

The sheds sell them - at a price.

Check Screwfix

Hammer fixings (a lighter version)

35- 120mm long. 3.17- 8.93 per 100.

Frame fixings

80 - 135mm long 6.70- 13.99 per 100