Part P and replacements confusion

[Let me Think]

Surely your not saying part qualified electricians are better than industrial ones????

I would have imagines that the experience and knowledge required by industrial grade electricians is much higher than domestic ones.

Non offence to domestic electricians, but how many people have 3 phase in their house??

The rest of this post is my opinion on what part p has accomplished

Cost small firms additional money which they will in turn pass the cost on the end consumer

Caused extra work for the building regs people, who pass the cost on to the consumer.

Stop skilled DIYers from doing their own work, adding cost to the consumer.

Requires additional tax to run the scheme, adding cost to the consumer

Is it me of is there a pattern here ??? Further more

Force companies to join the electrical groups which could earn the groups extra money

Force companies to join up to the part p scheme which earns the government more money.

The companies need to increase there fees to the consumer to cover these costs.

Same pattern again strange eh.

Will it actually stop the cowboys or will they just ignore part p ??? some how I think they will ignore part p.

It could even stop people who do proper electrical work, dogging tax, and before any one comments I do not condone this. This is about the only good thins I think part p has done.

Reduced the number of electricians doing domestic work, harming the consumer again.

I'm sure there are more but I think I have made my opinion.

[Tim S]

With respect, no it won't. Cowboys don;t care and DIYers who are clueless enough to do this are the sort of people who knock holes in load bearing walls and neither bother with lintels nor building control. ie pig ignorant and been ignoring building control since 1949.

What would help is a recognisable ID card showing membership of an approved electricians body (whether NAPIT, NICEIC etc) and the status of the bloke's qualifications, followed up with an awareness campaign. Worked for gas AFAICS.

I agree there. Rings are useful, but radials are harder to bodge.

Cheers

Tim

[zymurgy]

Good grief, that's a tax worth bringing in :-)

HTH

Paul.

[Doctor Drivel]

It will. The problems with gas boiler has dropped of sharply since Corgi. The consumer is aware that only Corgi can do gas work. The builder who would have fitted the boiler does not now, and justifies increases in cost to the client.

[Doctor Drivel]

Yep, and a cowboy is noticed very quickly and off the job. Because of the discerning clients the standard is higher. Is the pensioner going to have her own electrician to give it the once over?

[Fred]

One very big difference is that as a DIYer I can still work on gas, yet whilst being over qualified to work on electrical circuits - I can't work on all my own wiring.

If the intention was to prevent builders doing dodgy electrical work then the law could have been written the same way as for gas.

[Doctor Drivel]

I agree. Nevertheless regulation on electrical work was coming and no matter which government it would have been the same, as the politicians don't decide the detailed side what and can, they just take advise and say yes.

[Mike Harrison]

Discouraged people from getting work done properly due to increased cost, e.g. instead of getting more sockets they but crappy multi-blocks from the Pound Shop.

Brought building regs into disrepute.

[Part P Avoider]

If you are competent at dealing with electircs and know exactly wha you are doing, then just get on with it. If done correctly, you shoul not burn your house. But should you c*ck up and you do... `burn you house down`... then that would lead to all sorts of complications fro the insurance company with regards to non-compliance with Part P.

One way to get round that is to use old core colours and not the ne harmonised (can be more expensive these days as everyone is buying i up left, right and centre - check ebay though). Any investigation would think it was an older circuit than it actually is. However, als check the sockets and fittings for manufacture dates post April 2005.

That said, I am currently re-arranging the ring mains in my house a the arse of an electrician who installed it decided to join rando rooms upstairs and down on to 2 different circuits, with some room split on to 2 separate ring mains. Again... ARSE! And these guys ge paid to do this!! No wonder DIYers do stuff themselves.

If you want something done properly, do it yourself (if your competent

-- Part P Avoider

[Andy Hall]

I thought that you weren't a fan of CORGI.....

[Andy Hall]

They certainly were badly thought out since they have essentially applied legislation to an alleged problem which in reality didn't exist - namely danger and fires from fixed wiring.

Several people here wrote to the ministers concerned and the civil servants involved in the regulatory impact assessment.

It is very clear that this legislation has come about through the lobbying of trade interest groups such as EIA, NICEIC and others and there was not motivation on the part of government or the civil service to listen to alternative views.

It does of course, provide a framework whereby more trades people will have to submit paperwork for the work that they do and hence become visible to HMRC.

It obviously is flawed because the original basis is flawed.

Additionally, most local authorities do not seem to be very interested in policing it (in practice this is virtually impossible) and there is wide variation in charging mechanisms.

In other words, it's a shambles.

Well, I've done my small piece by writing to the shadow minister for deregulation.....

[Tim S]

That's a different matter. I said that I thought the CORGI thing had worked out quite well. Everyone's heard of CORGI, most people I know think it's a very good idea to make sure the gas fitter is CORGI registered before letting him/her loose. And technically, one needs to be CORGI to do work for hire or reward.

The only things wrong are:

a) CORGI is a monopoly;

b) TheY spout some absolution bollocks from time to time implying DIY gas is illegal (only a CORGI man can fit gas - they omit the "for hire or reward" conveniently). That puts them on a par with the NICEIC who also spout bollocks regularly but do serve some purpose in other respects. NICEIC of course would like to be a monopoly and seem to have convinced most LBA/insurance companies that they are, much to the disgust of NAPIT and others.

What I have proposed is take the good parts of CORGI - the public awareness, the "for hire or reward", the recognisable ID card and apply it to the 10 Part P schemes run by the 6 main electricans associations. One uniform card in a standard format, bearing qualifications and body membership details and a photo of the holder.

Run an ad campaign for a few years and granny Smith will know that the bloke with her CU in bits is actually registered with some good chance of being competent. Not hard, less overhead than Part P and leaves the DIYers alone.

Don't you think it's odd that I can mend a gas pipe all on my tod, yet I need a BNA to install a vented cylinder?

Cheers

Tim

[Doctor Drivel]

The principle is right but implementation is wrong. You may find hard to fathom.

[Doctor Drivel]

It is clear you are naive and never been around. Over time much wiring in many homes is bodged. I have seen tons of the stuff.

[Andy Hall]

So how would you change it?

[Andy Hall]

The allegation to justify the legislation was principally on the basis of electrical hazard and fires from fixed wiring.

This was demonstrably untrue as evidenced by RoSPA, fire service and other sources of disinterested data.

There was no problem with fixed wiring to be addressed - anything of significance has to do with faulty appliances and appliance wiring and temporary lashups with adaptors. This legislation does nothing to address that and cannot.

The reality is that it came to pass as a result of trade interest lobbying coupled with a government which enjoys regulation for the sake of it.

Read through the RIA information and all of that will be quite apparent.

[John Rumm]

The latter option would be best... however under part P this would not be allowed.

Part P will have no effect on cowboys - almost by definition.

How could it?

They already ignore the requirement for correct design, instalation, and testing - and these things are important. Why do you suppose they are going to take any notice of a few extra layers of paperwork which are of little or no consequence in the first place? This is assuming they have even heard of part P!

If people start taking part P seriously, then more people will die as a result.

Discussed before and disproved.

Any circuit is open to abuse if not installed competently (something part P does *not* require - go figure)

[John Rumm]

And there you hit upon the only real reason that the government might be interested in part P ;-)

(can't see it working myself - if people are willing to pay cash in had for a "no paperwork" job, I can't see them being too fussed about not getting another bit of paperwork!)

[John Rumm]

instead of getting

What kills hundreds of times the number of people every year as those who are killed by fixed electrical wiring.... ah yes, tripping over extension leads etc.

[Mike Harrison]

And indeed actually encourages it, through increasing the cost of doing it properly.

And a hopelessly uninformed govt department who believed that a wiring installation could be fully tested by plugging something into a socket. (This comes from a relative who was involved in the process at the time)