22x15mm internal reducer - how do I use it?

[Reestit Mutton]

Hi Guys,

After mucking me around for six weeks, my plumber has finally let me down for the final time and left me with a thermostatic mixer shower to install myself.

There are 15mm hot & cold shower tails behind the bath which I need to step up to 22mm as this is the size of the shower inlet.

I'm using compression joints and I've been told that I need to use a

22mm joint with a 22x15mm internal reducer. I have all this stuff and there is only one way that the internal reducer will fit into the joint and that is if I throw away the olive that comes with the joint. Everything seems to fit snugly but, when everything is tightened, the 15mm pipe is not gripped tightly. i.e. I can pull it out of the joint with my fingers.

Now, even a numpty like myself knows that this is just plain wrong.

Is there a specific way this joint and reducer needs to be fitted or am I missing a vital ingredient that does the job of gripping the 15mm pipe?

Just to recap, I have the following:

22mm plastic pipe with insert 15mm plastic pipe with insert 22mm elbow joint 22x15mm internal reducer

(all purchased from B&Q if that has any bearing on teh situation)

and that's it.

Can anyone help?...My partner really would like to be able to use the bathroom again this side of Christmas and you just cannot get a plumber out of bed at short notice for anything less than a fortune at this time of year.

cheers (and Merry Christmas folks) Laurence

[John Rumm]

ok

That won't work - the olive is the vital part of a compression joint.

OK, having some trouble visualising exactly what your "reducer" looks like are its ends male or female?

Have a look at

for some pictures...

You typically get a number of different types of reducers: reduction fittings - these are normal fittings but have different sized female ends to suit your pipes. So for example a 22x15mm reducer would have two compression fittings, a 22 on one end and a 15 on the other. Look at product code 6714 on the BES site. This you would use with olives either end like a normal fitting.

You can also get fitting reducers - but these are not common in compression. Here one end is designed to fit into a normal fitting (i.e. it is a male end) and the other end is a fitting of a different size. Product code 6788 would be an example of a solder fitting of this type.

There is also a thing called a reducing set that is designed to work with compression fittings to adapt the socket on one side to a smaller pipe.

Since you have plastic pipes, perhaps a straight reduction fitting like

10513 would be simpler - so step up to 22mm plastic, and then use your compression elbow.

[Dave Fawthrop]

| Hi Guys, |=20 | After mucking me around for six weeks, my plumber has finally let me=20 | down for the final time and left me with a thermostatic mixer shower to= =20 | install myself. |=20 | There are 15mm hot & cold shower tails behind the bath which I need to=20 | step up to 22mm as this is the size of the shower inlet. |=20 | I'm using compression joints and I've been told that I need to use a=20 | 22mm joint with a 22x15mm internal reducer. I have all this stuff and=20 | there is only one way that the internal reducer will fit into the joint= =20 | and that is if I throw away the olive that comes with the joint.=20 | Everything seems to fit snugly but, when everything is tightened, the=20 | 15mm pipe is not gripped tightly. i.e. I can pull it out of the joint=20 | with my fingers.

Before fitting a compression joint the copper pipe must be perfectly round, smooth and burr free. Take any flash caused by cutting the pipe off with a file. Check that there are no dents in that bit of the pipe. Remove any crud/paint/anything off the surface of the pipe with steel wool. When the end of the pipe feels like a baby's bum everything will fit together perfectly.

Then tighten the joint *very* *tight* .

--=20 Dave Fawthrop Sick of Premium SMS scams, SMS marketing, Direct marketing phone calls, Silent phone calls?=20 Register with

they work :-)

[nightjar]

Compression fittings should be hand tight plus half a turn. If they need more, there is something wrong.

Colin Bignell

[nightjar]

I'm not sure those reducers are designed for use with plastic pipe.

I suggest going to a proper plumbers' supplier, telling the bloke behind the counter what you want to do and asking him to supply you what you need.

Colin Bignell

[Dave Fawthrop]

Maybe my hand is not as strong as yours. I can sometimes not tighten by hand to close on the olive.

--=20 Dave Fawthrop Sick of Premium SMS scams, SMS marketing, Direct marketing phone calls, Silent phone calls?=20 Register with

they work :-)

[Reestit Mutton]

It looks somewhat like part number 9160 (Reducing set, Italian) or part number 7649 (reducing set, chrome plated).

Laurence

[nightjar]

Reading this again, did you use a 15mm olive on the pipe? I rarely use compression fittings, but IIRC, the reducer only has the effect of allowing you to use a smaller olive in the fitting.

Colin Bignell

[<me9]

That's what I thought until I was in B&Queue an hour ago. I was wanting a

22-15 compression adaptor. The ones on offer were over £2 and appearedto be a one piece device, which I assume shortens by telescoping, the inner part shrinking to trap the 15mm pipe.

Previous ones I'd seen were a couple of shaped washers to fit around the 15mm olive and pipe.

I settled for a solder ring reducer.

[Ed Sirett]

Reducing sets come in two flavours ( that I have so far used).

In both cases you discard (to your tool box) the 22mm olive.

In the case with the set that is made from 3 parts you put the deep part (the bit with less than 15mm hole) in it into the 22mm fitting then you put the 22mm back nut on to the 15mm pipe, then the shallower part then the 15mm olive. Insert pipe into deep insert in fitting and tighten to take up the slack should be hand tight unless the pipes are slightly awkward. The tighten about 4-7 flats more. This should grip the plastic pipe well unless the reducing set is not really a 22/15 unit or the plastic pipe is not 15mm.

With the one peice reducers. These go long end into the 22mm fitting first. These may require working harder to get a grip and they crimp the thinnish centre section onto the plastic.

Note in both cases you probably need to treat the fitting with at least the same "oomph" that you would to make the joint on to a 22mm pipe. A little grease on the threads and a little sealant (eg. liquid ptfe) on the mating surfaces may save some hassle.

[Ed Sirett]

If it's all out of sight then a 2x 22mm speedit elbows and 2x 22-15 stem reducers and the job's done.

[Reestit Mutton]

Cheers Ed (and others).

In the end, I bit the bullet and took the 15mm plastic back to where it joined a 15mm copper pipe (straight connector) and replaced the pipe with a 22x15mm straight converter and 22mm pipe instead.

My problem was mainly one of trying not to introduce any more joints than necessary (to minimise the risk of a leak behind a tiled wall).

As it happens it still took me many trips to many DIY outlets to solve the problem as I needed a 22mm stop end to cap off the shower pipes after poking them through the ply so that the tilers can do their job BEFORE the shower is fitted. As I needed to fit these stop ends to the chrome back nuts that came with the shower it took three different "brands" of stop end from three different suppliers to find ones that fitted properly.

Sheesh...and my plumber claimed it was a one hour job at the most! That's always the way isn't it...get a tradesman to quote for a job and it's a complicated piece of work...get the same tradesman to rebate you for unfinished work and it's suddenly become an insignificant piece of work (yes...we did give him his final installment before completion - he'd done so much good work up to that point and there was so little left to pay that we thought it wasn't worth causing an argument over - more fool us!).

Anyway...the job's done now and I'm as pleased as punch. Thanks for your help guys. Much appreciated.

regards, Laurence