I have seen references to my questions in earlier posts and looking at the
odpm site this is now even more confusing
The url on the odpm site I am looking at is
There seems to me conflicting information.
My reading of the odpm site says
You do not need to tell your local authority's Building Control Department
repairs, replacements and maintenance work; or
a.. extra power points or lighting points or other alterations to existing
circuits (except in a kitchen or bathroom, or outdoors)."
There is also no requirement of a part P certified Peron required to do this
So basic questions are
Can I legally
Replace components for example
Can i also add additional sockets or lighting points with out a certified
If the answer is no where does this get stated on the odpm site ?
Yes, as long as they're being added to an existing circuit (ie you're not
putting in a new circuit for them) and as long as these additional new
lights, sockets aren't in a kitchen, bathroom or outside.
Specific questions on what you can or can't do can be answered by your
council's building control office, however I would take the advice given to
you by the others here and just go ahead and do it.
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 17:43:04 +0000, Dark Angel wrote:
Yes if its a replacement. By the book this probably has to mean the same
model and manufacturer, arguably it would have to at least be the same
type of appliance with the same intended use, location and power
As per cooker. Note that this means upgraded the power is now illegal but
it won't stop those who need stopping. This year I was called to two sites
where the 32A MCB kept tripping on a 44A shower. (Went for just over 4
minutes before tripping).
As per cooker and shower.
My advice is that credibility in the rule of law is fast being eroded from
several directions. Firstly, do things right and legally when possible.
It is now illegal to install an extra socket in a kitchen even
if done by an experienced industrial electrician. It is now illegal to
read out names of people in some public places. It is now illegal to go
carol singing in some public places.
It's not that these things are necessarily highly desirable to do but some
people wish to sing carols and some people wish to wire their own homes.
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:18:15 +0000, Ed Sirett wrote:
Agree 100% with Ed. I'll add:
and some people wish to replace their windows or a vented HW cylinder,
which doesn't even carry the tenuous argument of safety that Part P tries
to justify itself with (yes, I accept that some upstairs windows must
serve as fire escapes and some window frames are part load bearing).
Ed: remember when you mentioned a few weeks ago that new vented HW
cylinders had a commissioning sticker on them? Well, I made a point of
looking when I was browsing in Bodgit Quick the other day. See what you
meant. The tick boxes weren't exactly rocket science, especially as there
was a pretty picture of how to connect it and max head data etc clearly
Mind you, I'd be damned if I sign one myself on a DIY install, as there
was a rather open ended paragraph about making sure that all building regs
were adhered to. These things may come back to haunt... What utter
PS. I often wonder, given that the PR of China is slowly (very slowly, but
it is) softening, and Britain is rapidly heading towards a Police State,
how long it will be before the curves cross... Time this current lot were
In a few years, you'll all be needing RFID chips in yer number
plates (really, was on the DVLA website recently, trials happening now),
your biometrics will be required to be logged with GOD (Great Orwellian
Database) and, heaven help you if you're arrested, even without charge,
your DNA gets sampled and held right now.
Hang on, someone's knocking on the door...
A friend of mine has a house that had a loft conversion well before he
bought it. Common sense would say extend the upstairs ring or install a new
one for the extension. The power to the three rooms up there was taken from
behind one of the socket on the first floor, spurred. A whole raft of
sockets were daisy changed together off one 2.5mm cable from behind one
socket. Two 3 kW heater could have been off the one 2.5mm cable (under
heat retaining insulation) and the main 32A mcb would not have tripped. the
cable would just have heated up, maybe causing a fire. Part P is GOOD
thing!!!! It will stop this sort of cowboy crap.
The sooner we go to the continental radial circuits instead of this ring
mains crap the better. Ring mains are far more open to abuse.
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 01:50:52 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:
With respect, no it won't. Cowboys don;t care and DIYers who are clueless
enough to do this are the sort of people who knock holes in load bearing
walls and neither bother with lintels nor building control. ie pig
ignorant and been ignoring building control since 1949.
What would help is a recognisable ID card showing membership of an
approved electricians body (whether NAPIT, NICEIC etc) and the status of
the bloke's qualifications, followed up with an awareness campaign. Worked
for gas AFAICS.
I agree there. Rings are useful, but radials are harder to bodge.
It will. The problems with gas boiler has dropped of sharply since Corgi.
The consumer is aware that only Corgi can do gas work. The builder who
would have fitted the boiler does not now, and justifies increases in cost
to the client.
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:49:24 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:
That's a different matter. I said that I thought the CORGI thing had
worked out quite well. Everyone's heard of CORGI, most people I know think
it's a very good idea to make sure the gas fitter is CORGI registered
before letting him/her loose. And technically, one needs to be CORGI to do
work for hire or reward.
The only things wrong are:
a) CORGI is a monopoly;
b) TheY spout some absolution bollocks from time to time implying DIY gas
is illegal (only a CORGI man can fit gas - they omit the "for hire or
reward" conveniently). That puts them on a par with the NICEIC
who also spout bollocks regularly but do serve some purpose in other
respects. NICEIC of course would like to be a monopoly and seem to have
convinced most LBA/insurance companies that they are, much to the disgust
of NAPIT and others.
What I have proposed is take the good parts of CORGI - the public
awareness, the "for hire or reward", the recognisable ID card and apply
it to the 10 Part P schemes run by the 6 main electricans associations.
One uniform card in a standard format, bearing qualifications and body
membership details and a photo of the holder.
Run an ad campaign for a few years and granny Smith will know that the
bloke with her CU in bits is actually registered with some good chance of
being competent. Not hard, less overhead than Part P and leaves the DIYers
Don't you think it's odd that I can mend a gas pipe all on my tod, yet I
need a BNA to install a vented cylinder?
The latter option would be best... however under part P this would not
Part P will have no effect on cowboys - almost by definition.
How could it?
They already ignore the requirement for correct design, instalation, and
testing - and these things are important. Why do you suppose they are
going to take any notice of a few extra layers of paperwork which are of
little or no consequence in the first place? This is assuming they have
even heard of part P!
If people start taking part P seriously, then more people will die as a
Discussed before and disproved.
> Ring mains are far more open to abuse.
Any circuit is open to abuse if not installed competently (something
part P does *not* require - go figure)
Part P has nothing to do with it. The loft conversion was done by a
It will stop builders, who through ignorance thought they were doing no
Pat-n-Dave, you need your head testing.
Read again, "Ring mains are far 'more' open to abuse".
BTW, his kitchen had all the sockets daisy changed together too, and the
under-worktop oven (1kW) was also plugged into this too. He has a major
rewire in parts. The kitchen fitters and loft converters all did this, and
they were not DIYers.
Huh? Builders have to comply with the building regs - including part P
of said regs.
So the builders who are ignorant of building regs will suddenly take
notice of yet another extension to the regs they are ignorant of?
You lack clarity of thought.
You need your circuits testing...
I assume you don't mean ring mains since consumers almost never come
into contact with these.
I read it - I was disagreeing with you.
The most common circuit faults have more dangerous implications on
radials than they do on ring circuits.
As they would be for pretty much any type of circuit.
Quite common - its only a small load (5A) - many ovens come with plugs
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