Part P Electrical Panic!

[Rob Griffiths]

The introduction of the Part P Electrical Installations legislation on January 1st has galvanised me into sorting out the ring mains in my two bed terraced house before Christmas.

At the moment there are two rings.

One services the kitchen, three double and two single sockets. The only one in permanent use is the one for the fridge/freezer. The rest draw power intermittently for the microwave, washing machine, food blender and radio.

[There is a totally separate circuit from the fuse box for the cooker]

The second ring services the two bedrooms up stairs, six double sockets and one single socket. From this circuit there are four spurs providing two sockets in the living room and two sockets in the dining room.

The number of sockets in the living room and dining room is woefully insufficient and they are also badly positioned. I'd like four double sockets in the dining room and four double sockets in the living room (not that I intend to have heavy duty appliances plugged in to all of them, but to give flexibility of positioning stuff).

My plan is fairly simple, that is, to extend the ring that services the kitchen so that it would incorporate the lounge and dining room and get rid of the spurs (access for wiring downstairs is easy due to basement and wooden floors). I would end up with:

• an upstairs ring with six double sockets and one single socket (and no spurs).

• a downstairs a ring with eleven double and two single sockets.

• a separate circuit for the cooker

Does this make sense?

Thanks in advance,

Rob

[Lurch]

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:03:43 +0000, Rob Griffiths strung together this:

Two ways of doing this. The first way, which would be my preference, would be to ditch all the spurs and add an extra ring for the lounge\dining. Obviously, if you have no spare ways in the CU then I would extend the ring from upstairs to feed the lounge\dining as those rooms and the bedrooms are unlikely to draw much current. Either way, I'd leave the kitchen on it's own as it is (in comparison to the rest of the house) a high load.

[John Rumm]

You only need to have started it before then, for it to count as an existing job and hence outside the scope of the regulations. In fact most people will probably find that all the jobs they take on over the next few years will have been started this week ;-)

Yup, but what is the question?

Some things to think about: Many people find that having a separate circuit for the kitchen can be good, since there is often a high concentration of high load appliances there (washing machine, dryer etc). Think about what circuits you want RCD protection on (e.g. sockets that may feed outdoor appliances), things that would be better not RCD protected* (freezer, boiler, lighting circuits etc). Do you need a circuit for power to outbuildings?

• assuming you are not on a TT supply and hence require RCDs for all circuits.

[Mary Fisher]

I don't think you can ever have enough sockets in a kitchen.

We have dedicated sockets for: fridge, freezer, Kenwood, radio, washing machine, dishwasher, dehydrator, steamer. They have their own surface places (no room for storage). Cooker, extractor hood and boiler have their own supplies. There's no microwave or television which most kitchens seem to have.

We have none spare and it's very irritating to have to unplug an appliance to use, for instance, an iron, vacuum, steam cleaner or whatever and have to unplug something.

What I suggest is that you install more than the number of sockets you need now or even think you're going to need. And make them accessible, none at floor level or behind anything. It will save a lot of nagging and/or work in the future.

Mary

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Not to me. The kitchen in a modern house with non electric heating is usually the heaviest loaded, so it makes sense to have one ring for that. I'd have two other rings - one up one down, but failing that just the one. But keep the kitchen separate.

[Stephen Dawson]

However they must be completed by the 1st April 2005

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Not sure what you mean. For dedicated appliance sockets like many in the kitchen, I've got those situated in the best place for them. Which might well be at floor level. They are accessible, but the last thing I want is cables trailing all over the place from 'conveniently' positioned sockets. Things like fridges and washing machines only need to be unplugged for service reasons.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

All Fools Day for a good reason. How would 'the authorities' know when any DIY work was completed?

[Lurch]

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 02:09:59 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)" strung together this:

Well they'll be around to check of course!

[TW]

Won't the date be on the installation certificate that you write ;-)

[:::Jerry::::]

But they might well need switching [1] off when there is no reason to pull the unit out, IMO (and I know DP doesn't agree, but there is always two ways to solve a problem) the use of switched fuse unit above the worktop and a connection unit at appliance level.

[1] same with water stop valves, why do so many people place these *behind" the washing machine etc. ?!

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Or have the socket in an adjacent cupboard so it is accessible. I'd agree with not having it sited so you have to move the appliance to get at it.

Because it's an easy relatively open space to work in?

[:::Jerry::::]

Have you ever known a woman leave something accessible at the back of a cupboard though, normally the door is all but bursting open under the pressure of the overflowing contents !.. :~)

[Owain]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote | Stephen Dawson wrote: | > However they must be completed by the 1st April 2005 | All Fools Day for a good reason. How would 'the authorities' | know when any DIY work was completed?

DIY's not completed until the lady of the household says it is :-)

Owain

[Mary Fisher]

Many years ago we had a row, as you do (we haven't had many so when we have they've been B - I - G *BIG*).

He shouted that he'd finish doing what I wanted in the house and then leave.

He's still here, I'm pleased to say ... but I sometimes wonder if he knew he'd never leave by making that condition :-)

Mary

[Dave Jones]

I'd just but all the cable now (in the old colours), then do it after xmas.

The problem I see with part P is that if you don't tell them, how are they supposed to know. The only time it will ever get picked up is when you sell up or have other work done, and then what are they going to do, tell you to rip it out and put the old stuff back in, I don't think so!

The only thing they could make you do is apply for retrospective planning and get a Periodic Inspection Report done.

So business as usual then!

Also "Work that need not be notified to building control bodies"

Work consisting of:

Replacing accessories such as socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses

Replacing the cable for a single circuit only, where damaged, for example, by fire, rodent or impact (a)

Re-fixing or replacing the enclosures of existing installation components (b)

Providing mechanical protection to existing fixed installations (c)

Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve a special installation (d) and consists of:

Adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an existing circuit (e)

Adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit (e)

Installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding (f)

Taken from

[Derek Doormer]

[Andy Burns]

i.e. 31-DEC-2004

I've seen several mentions of this "grace completion" period, I've looked at the .pdf from the ODPM web site and can't see any reference within it, merely that part P comes into effect 01-JAN-2005.

Can anyone give an authoritative reference?

[Derek Doormer]

The problem I see with part P is that if you don't tell them, how are they supposed to know. The only time it will ever get picked up is when you sell up or have other work done, and then what are they going to do, tell you to rip it out and put the old stuff back in, I don't think so!

The only thing they could make you do is apply for retrospective planning and get a Periodic Inspection Report done.

So business as usual then!

Also "Work that need not be notified to building control bodies"

Work consisting of: Replacing accessories such as socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses Replacing the cable for a single circuit only, where damaged, for example, by fire, rodent or impact (a) Re-fixing or replacing the enclosures of existing installation components (b) Providing mechanical protection to existing fixed installations (c) Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve a special installation (d) and consists of: Adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an existing circuit (e) Adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit (e) Installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding (f)

Taken from

[Mary Fisher]

er - you might well have things which can only be plugged in at floor level but we haven't and I can't think what would ...

We have no trailing cables at all, neither of us would allow them. That's another reason for not having sockets at floor level. I suppose we might if appliances HAD to be plugged in at floor level but things like the mixer are used at counter level, floor standing appliances have the cables coming from the back of the counter.

Yes, so the position of the socket might as well be accessible.

Our kitchen is VERY small. There's no wall/floor junction showing. Even if there were, there's no skirting board. It's been easier to fit the sockets above the (half tiled) level than have to make holes in tiles and still have to grovel to reach them.

...

Because they do it when they install the machine and don't think. They're donkeys.

Mary