Re: Electrical Building Regs Part P

[Ian Stirling]

>> Part P comes in on 1/1/05. > Yeah :-( > >> >> looks like a diy killer. What can you touch in house with all mod >> cons which doesn't impinge on the electrics? > > You can touch anything. You just now need BCO approval for big jobs. These > are listed in the regs. > > But diy is fine. There is now no lockout in English law of doing any work > on your house provided you can prove competence to Building Control. No > doubt there will be further attempts at restricting this like the CORGI and > pressurised heating systems fiascos but for now things are fine. > > But this does NOT apply to other houses you don't own - for instance > installing a gas boiler for a friend is illegal.

Even if not for 'gain'?

[Andy Hall]

Sticky wicket. the legislation does not specify whether money has to change hands only implies it via employment and self employment.

So if you were to go and install a boiler for a friend and there is a problem and they decide to sue you because the friend was blown up, it could be tricky in the hands of an appropriate scumbag (sorry lawyer).

.andy

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[Tony Halmarack]

Oh no citizen! You must realise the guillotine is your friend. It may make your neck a little sore but costly, inconvenient haircuts will be a thing of the past.

[Huge]

Jerry Pournelle talks about a state of "anarcho-fascism" where the State overweaningly imposes trivial laws and regulations, while real criminals go unpunished.

[Tony Halmarack]

But why would those in charge want the real criminals to go unpunished?

[Dave Stanton]

Does'nt Tony have that here already ?

Dave

[Tony Halmarack]

Look at it as a deferred payment system. Rather than paying the pros, you do it yourself, then pay to get it passed.

[Tony Halmarack]

Well yes, that and self preservation.

[Andy Hall]

OK. I was told that for new builds it was already the case. I must admit that I hadn't looked up the transition arrangements though.

This was the view from a couple of electrical wholesalers who thought that most likely it would be driven by the manufacturers not wanting to run as many product lines.

I see what you mean, but by the way this is written, the un-notified case is not covered at all.

In practical terms, I wonder what difference this will mean.

I suspect something like gas fitting where honest tradespeople will pay up and sign up for one of the exemption organisations, others will continue to be cowboys and stand virtually zero chance of detection and DIY will continue as before.

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[Hugo Nebula]

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:03:57 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named "Andy Wade" randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Schedule 2A is the amendment to the list of "approved persons" who self-certify their work and don't need to submit an application. What that effectively says is that even if the work is carried out after

1st Jan 2005 (the date Part P comes into effect), then provided that the electrician had been engaged before, and provided the work finishes within 3 months, then the regulations don't apply.

Whether DIY or a contractor, if the work, whether electrical work only or part of other work, commences before 1st Jan 2005, these regulations aren't in force. I've quickly scanned through them, and I can't see anything that would indicate otherwise. I think the table below is a reasonable approximation:

Work |By |Start date |Part P applies?

--------------------------------------------------------- Ext or alts |DIY |Before 1/1/05 |No " " " |Contractor| " " |No " " " |Either |After 1/1/05 |Yes Alts to elec|DIY | " " |No " " " |Contractor| " |No " " " |DIY |After 1/1/05 |Yes " " " |Contractor| " 1/1/05 but| | |before 1/4/05 |No " " " |Contractor|After 1/4/05 |Yes

[James]

So does this mean that I can effectively ignore Part P provided I claim I have started rewiring my house before 1/1/05, and I expect the job to take

40 years! Equally how in practice can it be enforced in any case? I understand that in general enforcement action can only be taken up to 12 months after the work has taken place - and in the case of Part P it is unlikely to be externally visible. In the situation I have described the house will not be sold in my lifetime - so purchasers solicitors questions are not relevant.

James

[Hugo Nebula]

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 11:25:55 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named "James" randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Undoubtedley there are going to be such instances in the first few years of people who started or who claim to have started the work prior to 1/1/05, and unless there's evidence to the contrary, no one is likely to argue.

However, if a house had changed hands since the new requirements came into force, then it would be fairly obvious that any rewiring would have been carried out after the sale (for example if the original survey report included any comments on the condition of the wiring). Most plastic parts have "date stamps" on them (the circles with a series of dots to indicate the month & year of manufacture), and these or other markings would be a good guide as to when any work was carried out.

As with replacement windows, I'm sure a lot of this will emerge when property is sold, and "enforced" in the same way.

[G&M]

Laugh. I assume you mean all these wonderful software projects which are going to save thousands of jobs by costing billions.

[Tony Halmarack]

Well, you can really take your pick. Any category will do. But that's OK 'cuz they're all a c*ck-ups rather than... y'know... the other thing.

[RichardS]

Hmmm, p'raps I'll start a one-man protest as the 'Lectric Martyr.....

btw, although as someone pointed out it's probably too late now, I feel that this change deserves a much, much wider audience than it enjoys at the moment.

Have begun emailing various current affairs programs (R4's PM etc al), my MP, leaders of opposition parties & jag+2's counterparts, etc, bringing attention to this issue. Would urge anyone else who feels strongly about it to do the same - single email may be ignored, but a whole raft of them in different formats from different people & they start to wonder if there's any political advantage to be gained in challenging it....

-- Richard Sampson

email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

[Tony Bryer]

The daughter of L-D MP Dr Jenny Tonge was fatally electrocuted on July

1. The kitchen had just been refitted:

I can't see the LibDems being at all sympathetic. Assuming the wiring was done by a 'professional' (I do not know whether it was or not) it just shows that even tighter controls are needed - or so politicians of all parties would tend to argue.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Good luck, but a number of us did this at the consultation stage and were ignored then. At this point I really don't see it's worth wasting any time on. I simply cannot see the majority of the 200,000 installation electrical workers who are not part of NICEIC are going to start handling over £1000/year for no perceived benefit on their part in the next 6 months, so there is unlikely to be much chance of getting electrical work done other than by unapproved contractors from that point on. Existing membership of the trade bodies is very low, as most of the trade does not seem to like their trade bodies very much (at least NICEIC, may not be true for ECA).

[Bob Eager]

It's not yet clear (AFAIK) whether it was a faulty appliance.

Of course, if it was rewired by an NICEIC person...